Futile Atheism

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You're confusing the terms. Early Christians were called godless, as well. Are you lumping your atheism in with theirs?

In the first place, don't be presumptuous, and in the second, clearly I'm not -- and nor were the Greeks, as this reference to Theodorus the Atheist will illustrate:

Theodorus ( c. 340-c. 250 BCE[1]) the Atheist, of Cyrene, was a philosopher of the Cyrenaic school. He lived in both Greece and Alexandria, before ending his days in his native city of Cyrene. As a Cyrenaic philosopher, he taught that the goal of life was to obtain joy and avoid grief, and that the former resulted from knowledge, and the latter from ignorance. But his principal claim to fame was his alleged atheism. He was usually designated by ancient writers Atheus (Greek: ho atheos), the Atheist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodorus_the_Atheist

Add to the list Democritus, Epicurus, Leucippus ...

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Eternal Being or Reality doesn't dovetail with Deity.

I humbly place my Googling Skillz at your service:

"Through the ages, Jain philosophers have adamantly rejected and opposed the concept of creator and omnipotent God and this has resulted in Jainism being labeled as nastika darsana or atheist philosophy by the rival religious philosophies. Th ...[text shortened]... without the idea of a creator god."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism_and_non-creationism

Eternal Being or Reality doesn't dovetail with Deity.
Are you high?
What is God if not the Eternal Being, the source of reality?

Jainism works from the position that no personal god exists. The remaining tenets coincide with Hindu thought.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
In the first place, don't be presumptuous, and in the second, clearly I'm not -- and nor were the Greeks, as this reference to Theodorus the Atheist will illustrate:

Theodorus ( c. 340-c. 250 BCE[1]) the Atheist, of Cyrene, was a philosopher of the Cyrenaic school. He lived in both Greece and Alexandria, before ending his days in his native c ...[text shortened]... ikipedia.org/wiki/Theodorus_the_Atheist

Add to the list Democritus, Epicurus, Leucippus ...

In the first place, don't be presumptuous...
That nearly sounds like you think I got what you clearly said wrong. Do tell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodorus_the_Atheist
Read much? Or just enough to support your entrenched thinking?

Theodorus was attacked for atheism. "He did away with all opinions respecting the Gods," says Laërtius, but some critics doubt whether he was absolutely an atheist, or simply denied the existence of the deities of popular belief. The charge of atheism is sustained by the popular designation of Atheus, by the authority of Cicero, Laërtius, Pseudo-Plutarch, Sextus Empiricus, and some Christian writers; while some others (e.g. Clement of Alexandria) speak of him as only rejecting the popular theology.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Name the civilization that had no belief in deity(s).

Name a civilization that had no atheists.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Name a civilization that had no atheists.

Well, I can think of two.

Heaven
Hell

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]Eternal Being or Reality doesn't dovetail with Deity.
Are you high?
What is God if not the Eternal Being, the source of reality?

Jainism works from the position that no personal god exists. The remaining tenets coincide with Hindu thought.[/b]

Grammar time: Compare 'Eternal Being' and 'the Eternal Being'. Yes, there is a difference.

-- And that is why Jainism is labelled 'atheist' by philosophies that -- believe in god(s).

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Grammar time: Compare 'Eternal Being' and 'the Eternal Being'. Yes, there is a difference.

-- And that is why Jainism is labelled 'atheist' by philosophies that -- believe in god(s).

Concept time: compare 'being God' and 'God.'

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]In the first place, don't be presumptuous...
That nearly sounds like you think I got what you clearly said wrong. Do tell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodorus_the_Atheist
Read much? Or just enough to support your entrenched thinking?

Theodorus was attacked for atheism. "He did away with all opinions respecting the Gods," says ...[text shortened]... others (e.g. Clement of Alexandria) speak of him as only rejecting the popular theology.[/b]

My entrenched thinking -- that 'atheos' meant 'atheist', 'someone who doesn't believe in god(s)'?

'The charge of atheism is sustained by the popular designation of Atheus.'

That means that 'atheus' was commonly held to mean what I take it to mean as well. Theodorus' actual views are beside the point.

Incidentally, what was your point in mentioning that 'atheist' is a C16 coinage (in English)? Don't hold back those pearls.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Concept time: compare 'being God' and 'God.'

I don't see the relevance. Perhaps you'd be so kind ...

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]In the first place, don't be presumptuous...
That nearly sounds like you think I got what you clearly said wrong. Do tell.[/b]

I would never call myself an atheist!

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
My entrenched thinking -- that 'atheos' meant 'atheist', 'someone who doesn't believe in god(s)'?

'The charge of atheism is sustained by the popular designation of Atheus.'

That means that 'atheus' was commonly held to mean what I take it to mean as well. Theodorus' actual views are beside the point.

Incidentally, what was your point in ...[text shortened]... oning that 'atheist' is a C16 coinage (in English)? Don't hold back those pearls.

The crime of not believing in the gods of the state was the intended and purposed meaning behind the term in the first place. The idea of not believing in any god at all wasn't even something that could be conceptualized because it didn't register with reason.

What is called atheism today--- the reaction to theism--- is a recent event. The failed attempts to point out examples-that-aren't-really-examples-when-you-actually-look-at-them notwithstanding, today's atheism isn't a rejection of the state's god(s) as much as a comment on the supposed similarity between God and Santa Claus.

You attempted to equate Theodorus as an atheist of today's fabric, when closer examination of both the general criticism of his teachings (He did away with all opinions respecting the Gods) as well as his actual views reveal him at odds with the same.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I don't see the relevance. Perhaps you'd be so kind ...

Is there a difference?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
The crime of not believing in the gods of the state was the intended and purposed meaning behind the term in the first place. The idea of not believing in any god at all wasn't even something that could be conceptualized because it didn't register with reason.

What is called atheism today--- the reaction to theism--- is a recent event. The failed atte inions respecting the Gods) as well as his actual views reveal him at odds with the same.

Please, Freaky. It was by the use of reason that the first atheists came to hold the views they did!

Diagoras, the 'first atheist', according to Cicero, certainly qualifies by today's standards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagoras_of_Melos

It's trite to maintain that ancient Greek atheists were different from modern atheists -- of course they were -- yet in both cases you have people moving from the 'default position', as you call it, towards, perhaps, enlightenment.

Why did Plato abhor Democritus and wish to burn all his books?

The Carvaka School of Hindu philosophy was decidedly materialist.

But you seem to attach some special significance to modern Western 'anti-monotheistic' atheism. Why is that so?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Is there a difference?

Use them all in a sentence (or two) and let's see.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Well, I can think of two.

Heaven
Hell

In other words you cannot. Or are those really civilizations?
But I am sure that by now you realize that your argument that Theism being the default position is not supported by the claim that I cannot list a civilization that I know did not contain a theist.