Galatians 5

Originally posted by @eladar
Where does this say people can't believe they have come to Christ but really didn't.

All you have quoted is a verse about the fact that God predestines who will be saved.

I believe there are some people (quite limited in number) whom God predestined for salvation. But to claim that is true for everyone, that predestination is universal, is not supported by the Bible, imo.

Originally posted by @secondson
I didn't say it. Jesus did.

John 6:37-40
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should r ...[text shortened]... e Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

You have not seen Christ?
So you dont qualify.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I believe there are some people (quite limited in number) whom God predestined for salvation. But to claim that is true for everyone, that predestination is universal, is not supported by the Bible, imo.

Sure that sounds about right to me. God chooses some for salvation, some for damnation and others have free will.

Originally posted by @eladar
Sure that sounds about right to me. God chooses some for salvation, some for damnation and others have free will.

Do you misrepresent people on purpose or are you just intellectually sloppy or lazy?

I never said (nor does the Bible) that God chooses some (or anyone) for damnation. I said (and the Bible supports) the idea of limited predestination - that God predestined some people to be saved. That doesn’t mean anything more than that.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Do you misrepresent people on purpose or are you just intellectually sloppy or lazy?

I never said (nor does the Bible) that God chooses some (or anyone) for damnation. I said (and the Bible supports) the idea of limited predestination - that God predestined some people to be saved. That doesn’t mean anything more than that.

Romans 9

Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

Originally posted by @eladar
Where does this say people can't believe they have come to Christ but really didn't.

All you have quoted is a verse about the fact that God predestines who will be saved.

"Where does this say people can't believe they have come to Christ but really didn't."

It doesn't, but that's not the point because that's not what we were talking about. You lost the thread back there. Probably because you missed the salient points being made by both you and me.

"All you have quoted is a verse about the fact that God predestines who will be saved."

And predestines the lost to be damned? That a contradiction of 1 Timothy 2:4, which says God "...will have all men to be saved,..", which means your idea of "predestination" is incorrect.

It is bad exegesis to make John 6:37-40 a predestination proof text.

Paul talks about predestination in Ephesians 1:5 and 11, and it doesn't mean God chose some to be saved and others lost as it is perfectly clear that it is God's will that all men be saved as it says in 1 Timothy 2:4.

So what does "predestinated" mean you ask? It means that in eternity past God knew who would believe, and predestined them to be conformed to the image of His own Son.

Originally posted by @rajk999
You have not seen Christ?
So you dont qualify.

But you have and you are.

Do you not realize how irrational a reply to my post yours is?

Why don't you go after Eladar? He called you a liar. He says you spread lies.

So far it's the only thing I agree with Him about.

Originally posted by @secondson
[b]"Where does this say people can't believe they have come to Christ but really didn't."

It doesn't, but that's not the point because that's not what we were talking about. You lost the thread back there. Probably because you missed the salient points being made by both you and me.

"All you have quoted is a verse about the fact that God pred ...[text shortened]... st God knew who would believe, and predestined them to be conformed to the image of His own Son.

Read what Paul wrote in Romans 9. Paul said God made the choice. Perhaps you can share where the Bible states God does not decide just knows the choices we make.

You are arguing with Paul not me.

Originally posted by @secondson
But you have and you are.

Do you not realize how irrational a reply to my post yours is?

Why don't you go after Eladar? He called you a liar. He says you spread lies.

So far it's the only thing I agree with Him about.

Eladar is more your level of knowlege so i will leave you two to battle it out.

In your post which you quoted Jesus says YOU HAVE TO SEE HIM.

My point is you cannot take these statements on their own. Jesus says other things which clarify expand and completes the point. Seeing and believing are pointless if one does not obey Him. This means obey his commandments

Originally posted by @rajk999
Eladar is more your level of knowlege so i will leave you two to battle it out.

In your post which you quoted Jesus says YOU HAVE TO SEE HIM.

My point is you cannot take these statements on their own. Jesus says other things which clarify expand and completes the point. Seeing and believing are pointless if one does not obey Him. This means obey his commandments

Yep obey God's commands which includes rejecting sexual immorality.

Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

Paul says specifically not by works. If God knew what the works would be then it would still be by works.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Eladar is more your level of knowlege so i will leave you two to battle it out.

In your post which you quoted Jesus says YOU HAVE TO SEE HIM.

My point is you cannot take these statements on their own. Jesus says other things which clarify expand and completes the point. Seeing and believing are pointless if one does not obey Him. This means obey his commandments

Few have ever actually seen Jesus literally, but that's not what He meant.

Your understanding of the scriptures is superficial at best. There's no spiritual depth in you.

You claim the letter of the law, and to your kind Jesus says, you "have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

You hypocrite! You quote your selected verses of what Jesus said to support your twisted heretical doctrine, then criticize others when they quote Jesus.

And for the record, serpent, I see Jesus everyday in every aspect of my life. I am eternally secure.

So why don't you just go whack yourself off over in divegeester's thread about masturbation? Go play with your twisted imagination there.

Originally posted by @eladar
Yep obey God's commands which includes rejecting sexual immorality.

Sexual immorality you say?

I see you're in agreement with Rajk now after calling him a liar.

You and Rajk should team up over in divegeester's thread about masturbation and have a circle jerk with each other. Rajk thinks it's ok.

Originally posted by @secondson
Sexual immorality you say?

I see you're in agreement with Rajk now after calling him a liar.

You and Rajk should team up over in divegeester's thread about masturbation and have a circle jerk with each other. Rajk thinks it's ok.

No, Rajk believes there is nothing wrong with sexual immorality. As long as you are a good person and don't rely on the church you will be saved. This is Rajk's gospel.

Originally posted by @eladar
No, Rajk believes there is nothing wrong with sexual immorality. As long as you are a good person and don't rely on the church you will be saved. This is Rajk's gospel.

Are you incapable of understanding your own posting pattern?

In one post you agree with Rajk, and in the next you don't,

Blind Pharisees are you both.