Getting the Shaft

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Which Bible character would you say most severely got the shaft?

Here are some candidates:
Jesus
Job
Isaac
Eve
Mary
Joseph
Jonah
Pharoah
Noah
Moses
Onan

Job and i would include Judas !!!

Anyway...i thought this thread was about the Samuel L Jackson film !!!!!

Originally posted by rwingett
*Ba da bing*

Or not. An immaculate conception (I would think) has a conspicuous lack of "shafts."

So we could say that Mary got the shaft in that she had a pregnancy without ever having the pleasures associated with initiating one. This can be seen to have had a lasting affect on the societal perception of female sexuality for centuries to come.

The concept of the Immaculate Conception is about how Mary was conceived, not how Jesus was conceived.

Originally posted by reader1107
The concept of the Immaculate Conception is about how Mary was conceived, not how Jesus was conceived.

This is news to me. Say some more.

Originally posted by kirksey957
This is news to me. Say some more.

I can tell you what is taught, even though I suspect it will spawn at least two or three more threads from the Doc. It presupposes the divinity of Jesus, and a whole lot of other things that all go together. As you read, feel free to mentally insert the word IF as needed.

Jesus is/was both fully human and fully divine. Humans are born with the stain of original sin. Jesus was born of a human, Mary. It would not be appropriate (that's not quite the word I'm looking for, but I've only had a few sips of coffee) for the divine Being to be born of a human marked with this stain. And thus the Immaculate Conception -- the teaching that Mary was conceived without this stain of Original Sin. It does not have anything to do with whether or not sex was involved in her creation or her son's, which is what many people tend to believe when they hear the phrase.

I will stop there and let others carry the torch further.

Originally posted by reader1107
I can tell you what is taught, even though I suspect it will spawn at least two or three more threads from the Doc. It presupposes the divinity of Jesus, and a whole lot of other things that all go together. As you read, feel free to mentally insert the word IF as needed.

Jesus is/was both fully human and fully divine. Humans are born with the stain ...[text shortened]... ieve when they hear the phrase.

I will stop there and let others carry the torch further.

That's a nice can of worms.

Originally posted by kirksey957
That's a nice can of worms.

The plot thickens, once you add Marian apparitions, etc.

Originally posted by reader1107
I can tell you what is taught, even though I suspect it will spawn at least two or three more threads from the Doc. It presupposes the divinity of Jesus, and a whole lot of other things that all go together. As you read, feel free to mentally insert the word IF as needed.

Jesus is/was both fully human and fully divine. Humans are born with the stain ...[text shortened]... ieve when they hear the phrase.

I will stop there and let others carry the torch further.

Nobody cares a fig about any of that gibberish. Was there sex involved, or was there not? If not, then the popular conception stands, regardless of how the church tries to divert your attention elsewhere.

Originally posted by rwingett
Nobody cares a fig about any of that gibberish. Was there sex involved, or was there not? If not, then the popular conception stands, regardless of how the church tries to divert your attention elsewhere.

I'm talking about the words. "Immaculate Conception" means that Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin. It does not mean that Jesus was born without semen being involved.

Originally posted by reader1107
I'm talking about the words. "Immaculate Conception" means that Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin. It does not mean that Jesus was born without semen being involved.

For what it's worth, your point is taken.

Originally posted by rwingett
For what it's worth, your point is taken.

Now we can resume discussion of whether or not Mary got the shaft in any or all senses of the word. 😉

Judas

Originally posted by reader1107


It would not be appropriate (that's not quite the word I'm looking for, but I've only had a few sips of coffee) for the divine Being to be born of a human marked with this stain. And thus the Immaculate Conception -- the teaching that Mary was conceived without this stain of Original Sin.

Well, one might be tempted to ask, why couldn't Jesus have just been immaculately conceived as easily as Mary was, since that sufficed for her to be free of the stain of original sin?

If you reject this, and assert that you have to go back one step in the chain, why stop at one link? Why didn't Mary's mother, or her grandmother, need to be immaculately conceived?

Originally posted by jammer
Judas

We agree then Jammer !!!

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Well, one might be tempted to ask, why couldn't Jesus have just been immaculately conceived as easily as Mary was, since that sufficed for her to be free of the stain of original sin?

If you reject this, and assert that you have to go back one step in the chain, why stop at one link? Why didn't Mary's mother, or her grandmother, need to be immaculately conceived?

agreed

Originally posted by kirksey957
Onan had the shaft and got the shaft.

Lot evidently served as God's tool in shafting both his daughters.

http://www.wga.hu/art/m/massys/jan/lotdaugh.jpg