Originally posted by jaywillWhat really happened is he simply didn't die on the cross, Roman soldiers were paid to cut him down way early and the bible itself speaks of him getting slavered with healing ointments like aloe, not embalming fluids as if someone was dead. So naturally there would be nobody in the grave, and three days later he recovered enough to give a couple of speeches and not wanting to go through that abuse again, took off on the silk route and established monasteries along the way and died in Kashmir.Or about the empty tomb.
The fact that anyone wanting to crush the spreading faith could have paraded around the corpse of Jesus is historically important. While it will not cause you to touch and enjoy God as He desires you to, the empty tomb is one of a number of important evidences of the truth of the Gospel message.
Either the R ...[text shortened]... Paul says it was the appearing of the Resurrected Jesus Christ that did it.
That is a much more believable version of all the christian hype.
Originally posted by amolv06Let's have a meeting to decide once and for all. Tell Lord Xenu to
My Lord Xenu could take your Jesus in a deity royal-rumble. Jesus may be able to walk on water, heal the sick, etc., but Xenu comes with hydrogen bombs and a DC-8! Nobody beats a DC-8.
meet Lord Jesus and me in back of the church tomorrow at high noon
and we shall have a showdown to find out who is the real Lord. hehehe 😀
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Originally posted by sonhouse
What really happened is he simply didn't die on the cross, Roman soldiers were paid to cut him down way early and the bible itself speaks of him getting slavered with healing ointments like aloe, not embalming fluids as if someone was dead. So naturally there would be nobody in the grave, and three days later he recovered enough to give a couple of speeches ...[text shortened]... way and died in Kashmir.
That is a much more believable version of all the christian hype.
What really happened is he simply didn't die on the cross, Roman soldiers were paid to cut him down way early and the bible itself speaks of him getting slavered with healing ointments like aloe, not embalming fluids as if someone was dead. So naturally there would be nobody in the grave, and three days later he recovered enough to give a couple of speeches and not wanting to go through that abuse again, took off on the silk route and established monasteries along the way and died in Kashmir.
That is a much more believable version of all the christian hype.
The 60's popular book "The Passover Plot" already tried to concoct a similar explanation. And Moslems have their Quran tell of Judas being crucified instead of Jesus.
For any interested, I recommend Dr. Gary Habermas as an expert on the historicity of the resurrection. A few samples of his debates:
The Case for the Resurrection verses Editor of "Skeptic Magazine"
Did Jesus Rise from the Dead? Dr. Gary Habermas verses Dr. Anthony Flew
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Originally posted by jaywillWhen you look at the situation through the eyes of reality things take on a different hue. Like Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Building up vast cosmic significance to a simple event doesn't tell the truth.
[quote] What really happened is he simply didn't die on the cross, Roman soldiers were paid to cut him down way early and the bible itself speaks of him getting slavered with healing ointments like aloe, not embalming fluids as if someone was dead. So naturally there would be nobody in the grave, and three days later he recovered enough to give a couple of s ] Dr. Gary Habermas verses Dr. Anthony Flew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40aRXR8cBxQ
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Originally posted by sonhouseIt is impossible for me to now believe that I have not met Jesus, period.
When you look at the situation through the eyes of reality things take on a different hue. Like Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Building up vast cosmic significance to a simple event doesn't tell the truth.
Call it bias if you wish. Jesus is believable. Jesus Christ ... is BELIEVABLE.
The reality is that the Son of God is totally victorious over death. His rising from the dead confirms His continued, before the event, promise to GIVE ETERNAL LIFE to His believers.
The victory He demonstrated over all other conceivable obstacles to a righteous human life were only CROWNED by this final victory. Of course death could not hold Him.
Then we have the wonderful Second Letter to the Corinthians by Paul. It could be considered as Paul's autobiography. If Paul did not know the resurrected Christ then you are reading the "autobiography" of a TOTAL, I mean TOTAL MADMAN.
And he is not ALONE in this persuasion by any means. At any rate ALONG with your "theory" that Jesus never died on the cross and was risen by God, you have to explain all that Paul went through, taught, suffered so intensly for, apparently consumed with the belief that he is serving the resurrected Lord Jesus.
Previously, he was a fire breathing skeptical unbeliever persecuting the Christian church. And he did not wait around to do so. He took the initiative to secure authority from the priests to go get em.
In other words, Saul of Tarsus, said in essence "Let me at them. I'll destroy this Christian sect down to the ground. Give me the authority. I'll wipe it OUT !!" (paraphrase)
From this obsession to wiping out the Christian community, Paul says that God turned him totally around in order to make him a model - that no matter how dead set opposed one is the the faith, God can mercifully turn that heart around and cause that one to believe and love Jesus Christ.
In his own words:
"I give thanks to Him who empowers me. Christ Jesus our Lord, that He has counted me faithful, appointing me to the ministry,
WHO FORMERLY was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insulting person; but I was shown mercy because, being ignorant, I acted in unbelief.... Because of this I was shown mercy, that in ME, the foremost, Jesus Christ might display all His longsuffering for a pattern to those who are to believe on Him unto eternal life." (See 1 Tim. 12,13,16)
Anyway. Dr. Flew and Dr. Habermas debates alternative explanations to the resurrection of Christ.
&feature=related
(I ignore the so-called pictures of Jesus. I do not agree with this hype. )
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Originally posted by sonhouseIs this how the Hindus, like Dasa, got their eternal Veda teachings?
What really happened is he simply didn't die on the cross, Roman soldiers were paid to cut him down way early and the bible itself speaks of him getting slavered with healing ointments like aloe, not embalming fluids as if someone was dead. So naturally there would be nobody in the grave, and three days later he recovered enough to give a couple of speeches ...[text shortened]... way and died in Kashmir.
That is a much more believable version of all the christian hype.
Or is it the other way, like Dasa says? Please tell us holy swami.
P.S. We want the truth, not what is more believeable.
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Originally posted by jaywillSo you just ignore what you don't want to believe. Okay, put your head in your
It is impossible for me to now believe that I have not met Jesus, period.
Call it bias if you wish. Jesus is [b]believable. Jesus Christ ... is BELIEVABLE.
The reality is that the Son of God is totally victorious over death. His rising from the dead confirms His continued, before the event, promise to GIVE ETERNAL LIFE to His believers.
Th ated
(I ignore the so-called pictures of Jesus. I do not agree with this hype. )[/b]
buttocks then.
P.S. Must I have a PHD to be credible?
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Originally posted by sonhouse
When you look at the situation through the eyes of reality things take on a different hue. Like Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Building up vast cosmic significance to a simple event doesn't tell the truth.
When you look at the situation through the eyes of reality things take on a different hue. Like Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Building up vast cosmic significance to a simple event doesn't tell the truth.
The simpliest explanation is the the DEED of Jesus rising from the dead perfectly matched the WORDS and DEEDS spoken and performed by Him BEFORE His death.
I don't find the few encredible conspiracy theories simplier at all. Most of even your skeptical New Testament scholars agree that Jesus did die. I said the skeptical ones agree with that for the most part.
The person who keeps count on what the thousands of varied scholarly views are on the life of Jesus is Dr. Gary Habermas. He charts out where people are on the landscape of textural criticism and what they generally believe and do not believe.
As for great cosmic significants of Christ death and resurrection - This kind of significance was provided BEFOREHAND to a great degree. Isaiah 53 provided, prophetically, great cosmic significance to the death and resurrection of a Suffering Servant.
And other passages did also, TO THE POINT that Jesus explained to His disciples after His rising that ALL of this was in conformity to what was already taught in the law and the prophets. It was just that they overlooked these crucial matters.
And here are some passages AFTER His being raised, demonstrating that Christ said the signicance to His death and resurrection was supplied A PRIOR.
1.) "And He said to them, O foolish and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and enter into His glory?
And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, He explained to them clearly in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself." (Luke 24:25-27)
2.) "And they handed Him a piece of broiled fish; And He took it and ate before them.
And He said to them, These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all the thngs written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and Psalms concerning Me must be fulfilled.
Then He opened their mind to understand the Scriptures; and He said to them, Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise up from the dead on the third day, And that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
You are witnesses of these things." (Luke 24:42-48)
He opened their minds to see in the Scriptures the predicted fact and great significance of the Christ's dying and resurrecting.
Don't you also be "foolish and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken" too.
Originally posted by jaywillWords, words, words. If that is the case, let Jesus himself come down and tell us all that. Personally I don't take the word of scam artists.When you look at the situation through the eyes of reality things take on a different hue. Like Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Building up vast cosmic significance to a simple event doesn't tell the truth.
The simpliest explanation is the the DEED of Jesus rising from the dead perfectly matched the ...[text shortened]... foolish and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken" too.[/b]
Like I said, the simplest explanation is he didn't die but went away and founded monasteries along the silk route, which date from the time of Jesus and nobody has a decent explanation for that either.
Originally posted by sonhouseHaven't you read that Jesus told his disciples to go into all the world
Words, words, words. If that is the case, let Jesus himself come down and tell us all that. Personally I don't take the word of scam artists.
Like I said, the simplest explanation is he didn't die but went away and founded monasteries along the silk route, which date from the time of Jesus and nobody has a decent explanation for that either.
teaching and baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Spirit. It was not Jesus, but the disciples.