glorious jesus

Originally posted by jaywill
I don't know why he keeps talking about the shroud of Turin.

It is important proof of the resurrection of Christ. For Paul said,

"But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also
is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because
we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in
fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ
has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless;
you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ
have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men
most to be pitied." (1 Corinthians 15:13-19)

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is important proof of the resurrection of Christ. For Paul said,

"But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also
is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because
we testified against God that He raised Christ, who ...[text shortened]... in Christ in this life only, we are of all men
most to be pitied." (1 Corinthians 15:13-19)

It is important proof of the resurrection of Christ. For Paul said,

"But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also
is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because
we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in
fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ
has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless;
you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ
have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men
most to be pitied." (1 Corinthians 15:13-19)

In the passage you have quoted nothing whatsoever is mentioned about the Shroud of Turin.

Of course the resurrection is foundational to my faith in Christ.
First Corinthians 15:13-19 says NOTHING about that.
Am I right ?

Originally posted by jaywill
Christ as our Savior God is definite not narrow.

That's it....

After reading this post and your one before this, I want to know how I can join the jaywill Fan Club.



😀

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Well its still on topic and anyway it's a pretty general OP.

I promise not to highjack any of your threads or anyone else that asks me not to do so, but sometimes I have mentioned sport or some such and had a few exchanges off topic with Robbie Carrobie, for example.
I dont see any harm in this if the parties are consenting.
I think it should be u ...[text shortened]... orientated with that comment.
Very "black and white". Which is fine, but a bit dreary, imo.

Robbie lives to derail other Christians' threads. I don't know why.

He certainly gets irate when we derail his.

Originally posted by jaywill
[quote] Do you not admit the possibility that there was ever anyone who was as "powerful" as Jesus?

All the masters are different and individual and have their own slant on the truth, but thats the way I see it. That there are various "universal masters" who all have found the "secret way" (in their own way) to find enlightenment.

I cannot see it as that is my opinion.

Christ as our Savior God is definite not narrow.

But Guatam Buddha was said to be a real person, who "faced his own demons" , spawned a religion. So was KRSNA.

RJHinds seems to think that because Jesus said he was "Gods only son" , whatever that meant in his time, and done miracoulous things, well so too are miracoulous things claimed of these others.

As I said, all the masters had their own slant on things. They all displayed incredible things which is why they are remembered and reviered.
But when Buddha says "find your own enlightenment with dignity" and JC says "no one shall come to the Father except through me", I dont see such a big difference. As I've said before, I believe JC meant something like "No one shall come to the Father except through my example." A little different,I know, but who is to say an unsound interpretation? You? Who?
Because Jesus aint talking to me? Actually I've not had any communication of any sort from any "enlightened masters" for a few years now, whereas I had recieved many communications of different sorts earlier in my life. This is where I get my spirituality from and why I am the way I am. other wise I would not be here and I would be none the wiser.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Actually I've not had any communication of any sort from any "enlightened masters" for a few years now, whereas I had recieved many communications of different sorts earlier in my life. This is where I get my spirituality from and why I am the way I am. other wise I would not be here and I would be none the wiser.

We are all a conglomeration of our past experiences and the people we've engaged with along the way, for good or bad. This is the human experience.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You might say Jesus the Christ is like "Buddha". However, do you know
of any "Buddha" that claimed to be "the Son of God" or predicted he would
rise from the grave after three days or is reported to have ascended into
heaven after his resurrection. Are not all of the Buddhas still in their grave?
You can still visit the empty tomb of Jesus (Yahshua) in ...[text shortened]... Do any of the Buddhas have anything like "the Shroud of Turin" or
"the Sudarium"?

see my post to jaywill

Originally posted by Suzianne
Robbie lives to derail other Christians' threads. I don't know why.

He certainly gets irate when we derail his.

Well I am just happy to spawn interest and perhaps share something new from my perspective.
It may not be a totally christian perspective, but it is a spiritual one and one that recognizes christs divinity.
As for where threads go, this is the spirituality forum not a christian forum, as I seem to have to keep repeating. You cant expect non christians to argue from only the bible . In fact the bible is way down on my list of books to turn to for spiritual knowledge.

Originally posted by sumydid
He loves jackasses too. So there is yet hope, my friend.

There is ALWAYS hope. One only has to accept the gift.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is important proof of the resurrection of Christ. For Paul said,

"But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also
is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because
we testified against God that He raised Christ, who ...[text shortened]... in Christ in this life only, we are of all men
most to be pitied." (1 Corinthians 15:13-19)

Here's a thought experiment for you RJH. First, paint yourself from head to foot. Second, take a sheet and get someone to wrap it around you shroud fashion. Then, wait for paint to dry. Finally unwrap and examine sheet. Do you think the transferred image will be a perfectly proportioned, undistorted image of your no doubt rugged and handsome features?

Originally posted by jaywill
[quote]

It is important proof of the resurrection of Christ. For Paul said,

"But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also
is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because
we testified against God that He ra ...[text shortened]... faith in Christ.
[b]First Corinthians 15:13-19 says NOTHING about that.
Am I right ?[/b]

Yes, you are right that Paul says nothing about it in first Corinthians 15,
but John 20 says that it was seeing the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium
that made both Peter and the disciple that Jesus loved (John) believe in the
resurrection.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes, you are right that Paul says nothing about it in first Corinthians 15,
but John 20 says that it was seeing the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium
that made both Peter and the disciple that Jesus loved (John) believe in the
resurrection.

So why quote 1 Corinthians instead of John 20?

I submit it is because John 20 doesn't mention the shroud of Turin either. To be sure, it mentions burial cloths and linens, but it's a stretch to say these were the shroud of Turin.

And besides, it was NOT the mere existence of these garments that convinced them. It was the ABSENCE of a body.

Originally posted by Suzianne
So why quote 1 Corinthians instead of John 20?

I submit it is because John 20 doesn't mention the shroud of Turin either. To be sure, it mentions burial cloths and linens, but it's a stretch to say these were the shroud of Turin.

And besides, it was NOT the mere existence of these garments that convinced them. It was the ABSENCE of a body.

Don't you know that the shroud is what the burial linen is called by the Jews.
Also they call the face cloth the sudarium. That was what Peter and John
saw along with the image of Jesus on them. They were already told that the
body was missing. John had already saw that the tomb contained only
the burial linen and no body. But after Peter went in and saw both the
shroud and the sudarium with the image of Jesus on them, John looked
again and then he believed.

P.S. The image of Jesus on them is why they kept them because burial
linen is normally considered unclean and would be burned.

JESUS CHRIST

never again will I enter this forum

Originally posted by RJHinds
Don't you know that the shroud is what the burial linen is called by the Jews.
Also they call the face cloth the sudarium. That was what Peter and John
saw along with the image of Jesus on them. They were already told that the
body was missing. John had already saw that the tomb contained only
the burial linen and no body. But after Peter went in and ...[text shortened]... is why they kept them because burial
linen is normally considered unclean and would be burned.

But after Peter went in and saw both the
shroud and the sudarium with the image of Jesus on them, John looked
again and then he believed.

Could you please quote the words in the 20th chapter of John's Gospel which say anyone say the image of Jesus on anything left in the tomb ?