1. Standard membersumydid
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    03 Dec '11 03:06
    Originally posted by Agerg
    He only loves True Christians™ (a proper subset of True Americans&trade😉
    He loves jackasses too. So there is yet hope, my friend.
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    03 Dec '11 03:22
    Originally posted by jaywill
    What has happened to that man [b]Jesus Christ is that God has made Him universalized.

    We know that a typical man can only talk to one or two people at a time. When person A has his attention he relinquishes his involvement, and person B may commence to hold his attention.

    This is how a typical man may interact with one or two people at a time ...[text shortened]... rips of the 1960s, I will not do so here. It is not something of which I am proud.[/b]
    I am not asking about drug experiences. And your post was somewhat unsatisfying.Perhaps I misread you in another post, but I remember you saying that you could not get away from Jesus. That he was everywhere you turned and that you could find no peace until you accepted Him as your saviour. Or words tot hat effect.

    Am I on the right track with this, because if I am then I would have a follow up question.
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    03 Dec '11 03:271 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Don't!
    Going off topic is what is devaluing the Spirituality Forum. nothing can be debated without someone changing the subject, wires get crossed, the original point is lost and everyone gets annoyed.

    Just start a new thread for Christ's sake!
    Well its still on topic and anyway it's a pretty general OP.

    I promise not to highjack any of your threads or anyone else that asks me not to do so, but sometimes I have mentioned sport or some such and had a few exchanges off topic with Robbie Carrobie, for example.
    I dont see any harm in this if the parties are consenting.
    I think it should be upto the OP author to determine wether the replies are off track and uinwanted or if they are a refreshing change of direction.

    You sound as if you are very left brain orientated with that comment.
    Very "black and white". Which is fine, but a bit dreary, imo.
  4. Joined
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    03 Dec '11 06:086 edits
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I am not asking about drug experiences. And your post was somewhat unsatisfying.Perhaps I misread you in another post, but I remember you saying that you could not get away from Jesus. That he was everywhere you turned and that you could find no peace until you accepted Him as your saviour. Or words tot hat effect.

    Am I on the right track with this, because if I am then I would have a follow up question.
    I think I wrote something to the effect that I was like the lost sheep which Jesus came to rescue. And I ironically spoke of "finding the Lord".

    This parable in Luke is quite applicable to my personal experience:

    " And He told them this parable, saying, Which man of you, who has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he finds it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes into his house, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.

    I tell you that in the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner repenting than over ninety-nine righteous persons who have no need of repentance." (Luke 15:3-7)


    I had been pursuing a Christian girlfriend. And to my great irritation she had informed me that I was " a lost sheep". This really annoyed me. I went home grumbling to myself "I'm no lost sheep".

    Well a few months went by and one night, guess what? I discovered that I was indeed a lost sheep. It was a night of relief. It was a night of great peace after a long and lonely road away from God.

    I had no sensation that I was moving towards Christ. If you had asked me I would have told you that I was definitely moving in another direction AWAY from Christianity.

    This POWERFUL Person subdued me. He is powerful but also greatly GENTLE. I was subdued by a gentle and yet very powerful Person. He was stronger than I. But to surrender to Him was to also ASCEND and TRANSCEND. To humble myself was to be lifted up. To bow to Jesus was to soar like an eagle.

    Coming to Jesus is a great paradox. But I was that lost sheep, lost in the howling, dark and windy wilderness. He pursued me for years. He let me have as much rope as I wanted. Then He appeared to me in my heart. I then ironically said "I FOUND the Lord." Actually, by His patient mercy, He found me.

    There is an old hymn with an appropriate title or a line called - "Somewhere in the Shadows You'll Find Jesus".

    It is true. It is really true. Somewhere in the dark shadows of life, if you open your heart to His word, you will find Jesus.

    " ... the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    03 Dec '11 07:552 edits
    Originally posted by jaywill
    I think I wrote something to the effect that I was like the lost sheep which Jesus came to rescue. And I ironically spoke of "finding the Lord".

    This parable in Luke is quite applicable to my personal experience:

    [b]" And He told them this parable, saying, Which man of you, who has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-n sus.

    [b]" ... the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
    [/b]
    OK.
    I cant quite seem to recall the actual thread I am referring to and this latest post reveals a little more to me.
    thankyou, by the way. As I have said before , you sound as one that has been truly transformed by Jesus.
    Now I dont believe in Jesus like you believe in Jesus. I believe he was possibly a "buddha" and certainly a boddhisatava, to use buddhist terms, but I see him as just another one of too few (imo) that have come along and shown us the way and not the ONLY one as you (and other christians) seem to imply, (well more than "seem to imply" --- pretty much guarantee--), that he was the only ONE who came and was in a class all by himself, whereas I think there are (and were) others. Too few,I admit, but more than one.

    Do you not admit the possibility that there was ever anyone who was as "powerful" as Jesus?

    All the masters are different and individual and have their own slant on the truth, but thats the way I see it. That there are various "universal masters" who all have found the "secret way" (in their own way) to find enlightenment.

    I cannot see it as only JC being the only one like him.
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Dec '11 12:371 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    OK.
    I cant quite seem to recall the actual thread I am referring to and this latest post reveals a little more to me.
    thankyou, by the way. As I have said before , you sound as one that has been truly transformed by Jesus.
    Now I dont believe in Jesus like you believe in Jesus. I believe he was possibly a "buddha" and certainly a boddhisatava, to us ay) to find enlightenment.

    I cannot see it as only JC being the only one like him.
    You might say Jesus the Christ is like "Buddha". However, do you know
    of any "Buddha" that claimed to be "the Son of God" or predicted he would
    rise from the grave after three days or is reported to have ascended into
    heaven after his resurrection. Are not all of the Buddhas still in their grave?
    You can still visit the empty tomb of Jesus (Yahshua) in Jerusalem today.
    Which of the Buddhas have claimed to be able to give eternal life? Which
    of the Buddhas claimed to be the only way to God?

    I think Jesus the Christ is more than just another "enlightened Buddha".

    P.S. Do any of the Buddhas have anything like "the Shroud of Turin" or
    "the Sudarium"?
  7. Joined
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    03 Dec '11 13:552 edits
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    OK.
    I cant quite seem to recall the actual thread I am referring to and this latest post reveals a little more to me.
    thankyou, by the way. As I have said before , you sound as one that has been truly transformed by Jesus.
    Now I dont believe in Jesus like you believe in Jesus. I believe he was possibly a "buddha" and certainly a boddhisatava, to us ay) to find enlightenment.

    I cannot see it as only JC being the only one like him.
    Do you not admit the possibility that there was ever anyone who was as "powerful" as Jesus?

    All the masters are different and individual and have their own slant on the truth, but thats the way I see it. That there are various "universal masters" who all have found the "secret way" (in their own way) to find enlightenment.

    I cannot see it as only JC being the only one like him.


    This kind of philosophy, on one hand, seems more preferable. In myself I prefered that the ultimate truth would be a vibration, a force, or some kind of enlightened realization, a Cosmic Oversoul, Nirvana, or some other state of enlightenment.

    Things like this are all underneath my ego. No matter how lofty a concept they convey I can look down upon them from a higher point and "use" them. Though they are presented by many enlightened "masters" what they give is not itself a living Person. Since it is not a living Person it is beneath me, no matter HOW lofty a concept it is.

    A universal Oversoul is beneath me. A great FORCE is on a lower level of existence than the "me" of my ego. Even a bright Realization is on a level of existence beneath me. Even a grand cosmic Evolution is something on a lower order than myself.

    All these are attractive. But they are not my "Lord". They are not the lordship of a loving and strong Someone to whom I must submit as my Lord and Savior".

    For this reason these ascended masters and gurus do have their attraction. They are like "prophets". They even, and usually do, have their hands on some kind of truth.

    But the Lord Jesus does not come with A truth. He comes pointing to HIMSELF as the truth. Nor does He come bringing a Way which is apart from Himself.

    "I am the way, the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."

    I found that only the Lord Jesus as my Savior rose above me. And only this Friend of Sinners could truly do a thorough INSIDE job to heal the innermost parts of my soul.

    Incedently, "No one comes to the Father except through Me" may not mean the same thing as "no one comes to the Father except through Christianity".

    The former could mean that anywhere, anyplace, at any time, if someone comes to God it is because of Jesus, though they do not know it. At present, that is my opinion.

    Christ as our Savior God is definite not narrow.
  8. Standard memberKrapsparov
    Don't baptise cats!!
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    03 Dec '11 16:10
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You might say Jesus the Christ is like "Buddha". However, do you know
    of any "Buddha" that claimed to be "the Son of God" or predicted he would
    rise from the grave after three days or is reported to have ascended into
    heaven after his resurrection. Are not all of the Buddhas still in their grave?
    You can still visit the empty tomb of Jesus (Yahshua) in ...[text shortened]... Do any of the Buddhas have anything like "the Shroud of Turin" or
    "the Sudarium"?
    You do know that the Shroud of Turin has been debunked and not even Christians believe its authenticity?

    Just because Jesus claimed to be the way to god, does not mean he delivered either.
  9. Joined
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    03 Dec '11 17:04
    Originally posted by Krapsparov
    You do know that the Shroud of Turin has been debunked and not even Christians believe its authenticity?

    Just because Jesus claimed to be the way to god, does not mean he delivered either.
    I don't know why he keeps talking about the shroud of Turin.
  10. Joined
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    03 Dec '11 17:34
    Originally posted by jaywill
    I don't know why he keeps talking about the shroud of Turin.
    Or about the empty tomb.

    If you were to go to see the tomb of Tutankhamen (not sure if you actually can) then you would find it empty.
    The body and sarcophagus have been removed.

    This doesn't mean that Tutankhamen rose from the dead, it just means he has been removed from his tomb.
    (and we only know this because we have the records of removing him, without that there wouldn't be any
    evidence he was ever put in it in the first place.)


    The existence of the shroud or tomb even if genuine, and it's a big if, do not even prove JC existed, let alone that
    he was the son of god or that any of the things he is purported to have done were true.

    It baffles me as to how it is that RJHinds can't see that these items are meaningless without already knowing
    (assuming) a great many other things first, including the things he is trying to use the to prove.

    The same applies to the bible, it only means something IF god exists and IF god actually had a hand in writing it.
    Until you can prove the existence of god and that this god inspired the bible it's just an old book, nothing more.
  11. Standard memberAgerg
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    03 Dec '11 17:57
    Originally posted by sumydid
    He loves jackasses too. So there is yet hope, my friend.
    I am not your friend.
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Dec '11 18:08
    Originally posted by Krapsparov
    You do know that the Shroud of Turin has been debunked and not even Christians believe its authenticity?

    Just because Jesus claimed to be the way to god, does not mean he delivered either.
    You are misinformed; the debunking has been declared an error by the
    scientist that did the dating process and that it could indeed be old enough
    to be the burial cloth of Christ.
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Dec '11 18:103 edits
    Originally posted by Faith No More
    How did giving his life save humanity from our sinful nature and why do you say their and not our are you not part of humanity?
    I know this seems odd but I really do not know the tale of jesus
    The story begins in Genesis 1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    This also included what we call planets, moons, stars, our sun and our atmosphere and
    light. In the third heaven God created a throne with invisible creatures to serve Him.

    He then provided water on the earth with mist of water coming up from beneath the
    earth and water above the earth to sheild the earth from radiation from the sun and to
    regulate the temperature on the earth. Then He created vegetation, sea creatures,
    birds, and animals to live on the land. Then finally He created humans.

    Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them
    rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and
    over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” God
    created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He
    created them. (Genesis 1:26-27) Here we see God is spoken of as both singular and
    plural terms. That is because we find out later that God is a unity of three persons,
    the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit.

    God placed our first parents in the Garden of Eden and surrounded them with every tree
    that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. Two of these trees are mentioned;
    ''the tree of life . . . and the tree of knowledge of good and evil" ( Genesis 2 :9).
    Eating the fruit of the latter tree would bring sin and death, for, said God, " In the
    day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:17).

    One of the invisible spirit creatures that God had created to serve Him wanted to be
    like God and became jealous of the love and attention that God was giving to the two
    human creatures. Since He knew that if he could trick them into disobeying God by
    eating of this forbidden fruit they would die, he entered the most beautiful and
    crafty creature on earth less than man in order to entice Eve to eat it.

    Now, that invisible spirit creature is known as Satan the Devil and a murderer
    because he caused both physical and spiritual death to mankind. For allowing Satan
    the Devil to take control of him the beautiful and crafty creature was cursed by
    God and must crawl on its belly and is known as a serpent, which is another name
    given to the Devil.

    When God confronted the man about what he had done the man said, “The woman whom You
    gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate.” Then the LORD God said to
    the woman, “What is this you have done?” And the woman said, “The serpent deceived
    me, and I ate.”

    The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
    Cursed are you more than all cattle, and more than every beast of the field;
    On your belly you will go, and dust you will eat the days of your life;
    and I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed;
    He shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise him on the heel.”
    (Normally the seed of man is spoken of, but here we see the seed of a women, which
    refers to the virgin birth of Jesus.)

    To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, in pain
    you will bring forth children; yet your desire will be for your husband,
    and he will rule over you.”

    Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have
    eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;
    cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you will eat of it all the days of your
    life. “Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; and you will eat the plants
    of the field; by the sweat of your face you will eat bread, till you return to the
    ground, because from it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall
    return." (Genesis 3:12-19)

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was Deity.
    All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being
    that has come into being. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not
    receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become
    children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of
    blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
    And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of
    the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:1,3,11-14)

    The righteous character of God demands that every sin be dealt with. In order to deal
    justly and mercifully, someone had to suffer the death penalty for the sin of the
    world. So the Word, who is the eternal Son of God, became flesh and was obliged to
    be made in the likeness of man in order to redeem him. We call the act of the Son of
    God becoming flesh through His birth by the virgin Mary, the Incarnation.

    Christ defined one purpose of His Incarnation and earthly ministry when He said,
    "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Mark 2:17). This does
    not mean that there are some men who are righteous and do not need to repent of their
    sins for in Romans 3:10 it is said, "There is none righteous, no, not one." The
    Apostle Paul said, "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that
    Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief"
    (I Timothy 1:15).

    Another purpose of the Incarnation is revealed in the Epistle to the Hebrews. Three
    verses, linked together, assert that the coming of Jesus Christ was to destroy the
    devil. "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the
    suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God
    should taste death for every man . . . For as much then as the children are
    partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same
    [flesh and blood]; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of
    death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all
    their lifetime subject to bondage" (Hebrews 2:9,14-15)

    Our Lord Jesus Christ testified, "The Son of man came not to be ministered unto,
    but to minister, and to give His life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20:28).

    When Jesus Christ, the Word, "was made flesh," "He came unto His own, and His own
    received Him not" (John 1:11, 14). ButHis citizens hated Him, and sent a delegation
    after Him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us" (Luke 19:14).
    In blind unbelief the children of Abraham, refusing to recognize or receive Him,
    drove Him from their midst and crucified Him. After His resurrection and ascension
    He revealed to the apostles this mystery. No longer did Israel have priority on the
    truth, but the message was to be spread abroad to every creature and God would visit
    the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name (Acts 15:14).

    Israel is still set aside, but only temporarily. The Apostle Paul writes, ''I say
    then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid . . . God hath not cast away His
    people which He foreknew . . . For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant
    of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part
    is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."
    (Romans 11:1, 2, 25).

    Israel is not beyond recovery; she is not irretrievably lost. By her fall the whole
    world was blessed with the message of salvation. And so all Israel shall be saved.
    (Romans 10:26). When our Lord said in Matthew 21:43, that "the kingdom shall be
    given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof," He was not referring to any
    Gentile nation but to regenerated Israel. God gave a land to the people as a
    possession and a dwelling place (Genesis 12: 1-3). This fact, coupled with the
    thought of the vast
    area granted by God to Abraham (Genesis 15: 18) provides
    plenty of room for all of them.

    While the Jews continue to return to the Land, all signs point to the return of the
    incarnate Son, the One who is both human and Divine, and the One in whom God's
    purposes for Israel are to be fulfilled. According to prophecy, the incarnate One,
    Immanuel, the virgin's Son, is to occupy David's throne. ''For unto us a Child is
    born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His
    name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father,
    the Prince of Peace. Of the increase of government and peace there shall be no end,
    upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it
    with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord
    of hosts will perform this'' (Isaiah 9:6, 7).

    When the Incarnation had been announced, there came wise men from the east to
    Jerusalem, saying, "Where is He that is born king of the Jews? For we have seen His
    star in the east, and are come to worship Him" (Matthew 2:1, 2). When the Old
    Testament prophets wrote of Messiah's offices, they included that of King. "Rejoice
    greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy king cometh
    unto thee: He is just, and having salvation: lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon
    a colt the foal of an ass" (Zechariah 9:9).

    The incarnate Son is to appear in His resurrection body and is to sit on the throne
    of His glory. Jesus Himself spoke of the day "when the Son of man shall come in His
    glory, and all the holy angels with Him; then shall He sit upon the throne of His
    glory" (Matthew 25:31). John writes, ''Every eye shall see Him'' (Revelation 1:7).
    The prophetic utterance spoken by God to David in 2 Samuel 7:12-16 concerning David's
    seed having an everlasting throne and kingdom, has a double fulfillment. Primarily
    it referred to Solomon's temple. Ultimately and finally it speaks of Christ's earthly
    reign as...
  14. Joined
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    03 Dec '11 18:156 edits
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Or about the empty tomb.

    If you were to go to see the tomb of Tutankhamen (not sure if you actually can) then you would find it empty.
    The body and sarcophagus have been removed.

    This doesn't mean that Tutankhamen rose from the dead, it just means he has been removed from his tomb.
    (and we only know this because we have the records of removing hi existence of god and that this god inspired the bible it's just an old book, nothing more.
    Or about the empty tomb.


    The fact that anyone wanting to crush the spreading faith could have paraded around the corpse of Jesus is historically important. While it will not cause you to touch and enjoy God as He desires you to, the empty tomb is one of a number of important evidences of the truth of the Gospel message.

    Either the Romans, or the Jewish religionists, or the pagans could have simply found the body of Jesus, displayed it to the world and that would have been the end of the spread of the Gospel. They did not. The TOMB was empty.

    And men claimed to have encountered alive the One whose body had occupied that tomb.

    I no little about the Shroud of Turin. But the best historical apologetics for the Christian faith I have encountered refer to the empty tomb much more than the Shroud of Turin.

    Personally I don't put much stock in the latter.


    If you were to go to see the tomb of Tutankhamen (not sure if you actually can) then you would find it empty.
    The body and sarcophagus have been removed.


    I don't know too much about Tutankhamen. But there is a vast difference in belief and teaching.

    It is one thing to say that someone is going on to some afterlife after having expired. It is another to claim, as Jesus did, that He would rise from the dead.

    Sure, there was much gold and treasure in the Pharoah's tombs. Thus ROBBERS ramsacked them for the riches they could get. There was no gold and silver in the tomb of Jesus.

    I don't think the empty (probably robbed) tomb of Tutankhaman's burial treasures has the same significance as the empty tomb of Jesus.

    The latter was a Carpenter. The latter a "renegade" Rabbi who was never properly schooled, yet whose three year ministry shattered human history with spiritual impact.


    This doesn't mean that Tutankhamen rose from the dead, it just means he has been removed from his tomb.


    That is right. Nor did he teach he would. He may have strongly believed that he would go on to the Afterworld of Egyptian mythology. And he included in his grave all kinds of material objects useful to him to do so, the worth of which was a tempting allurement to generations of grave robbers.


    (and we only know this because we have the records of removing him, without that there wouldn't be any
    evidence he was ever put in it in the first place.)


    It is also true that some Pharoahs cleverly hid where they were actually going to be buried. I'd have to review the particulars with Tutenkhamen.

    Jesus rises, appears to 500 disciples at one time. The majority of them were still alive when Paul reminded the church in Corinth that contemporary members of this witness group could be consulted to verify Paul's teaching of a risen Savior.

    "For I delivered to you, first of all, that which also I received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;

    And that He was buried, and that He has been raised on the third day according to the Scriptures;

    And that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve; Then He appeared to over FIVE HUNDRED brothers at one time, of whom the MAJORITY remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;,

    Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles;

    And last of all He appeared to me ... For I am the least of the apostles, who am not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God." (my emphasis, See - 1 Cor. 15:3-9)



    1.) This portion of letter proves that a resurrected Jesus was taught before Paul picked it up to teach it -

    "For I delivered to you, first of all, that which also I received, that Christ ... has been raised on the third day."

    That does not prove that Christ resurrected. However, it is evidence that it was believed and taught that He was resurrected very close in years to when the event was supposed to have taken place.

    2.) "And He appeared to Cephas" . Cephas is Peter. Peter was still alive to inform the church in Corinth whether Paul was speaking truthfully or not.

    No, that may not prove that Christ rose. It is evidence that Cephas believed that He rose, taught and preached that He rose, and was still alive to testify whether the younger apostle Paul was teaching the same thing or something different.

    3.) "Then He appeared to five hundred brothers at one time, of whom the majority remain until now ..." .

    Group hullucination ?? I doubt it.

    Group conspiracy to perpetrate a hoax on the world ?
    What did such a hoax get for them but a whole lot of trouble, including torture, imprisonment, persecution, and at times death.

    And Paul says Christ appeared after resurrection to James. This James is the former skeptical brother of Jesus. He became a big factor in the leadership of the church in Jerusalem.

    "And last of all He appeared to me ..."

    Something made a hard core enemy of the Christian church, dragging men and women off to religious custody, forcing them to recant and blaspheme, turn 180 degrees around and AUTHOR some 13 of the 27 New Testament documents. Paul says it was the appearing of the Resurrected Jesus Christ that did it.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    13644
    03 Dec '11 18:30
    See Zechariah 6:12
    The Psalmist spoke of His throne as an enduring throne (Psalm 89:4, 29, 36). God
    promises that this earthly throne and kingdom are to continue forever, and that the
    One to occupy it shall be David's seed, his rightful Son (I Chronicles 17:11). The
    genealogies in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 will support the relationship of Jesus Christ to
    David. During our Lord's earthly ministry, those who sought His help called Him
    "the son of David" (see Matthew 9:27; Mark 10:47; Luke 18:38).

    Christ's kingdom is literal, therefore it cannot be realized apart from the
    Incarnation. A perfect kingdom demands a perfect King. At the end of the conflict of
    the ages, Jesus Christ, the God-Man will return to earth to establish His righteous
    kingdom which will never be destroyed. His kingdom of glory, and His throne in the
    midst, was God's first promise through the mouth of the angel Gabriel to Mary, and it
    links together the Incarnation and reign of the Son of God, ''And behold, thou shalt
    conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall
    be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give
    unto Him the throne of His father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob
    for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end" (Luke 1:31-33).

    The supreme purpose in the eternal Son's coming into the world was to glorify the
    Father.
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