"God" and Infinity ?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I think the human memory system cant be likened to a memory of a pc, although many have done just that in a bid to understand the workings of the brain.
I think the "storage capacity" is potentially infinite if you keep discarding non-useful inofrmation when it is no longer needed. I may have a few things confused, but no one else can explain to me any better.
Better to say that pc's are modelled on the human brain than vice versa imo

Storage capacity of any device is taken to be the amount of data that the device can store at one time. So, you don't get to say an 8 GB thumb drive has an infinite capacity because you can keep erasing it and putting new data on it, though it would be shrewd salesmanship.

Originally posted by Taoman
Now, what do you mean by a cigar? No, it is not just a cigar. Firstly it is just a leaf of a plant, a rolled up leaf of a plant. That it is a "cigar" is an imputation from a human mind, who as a human knows it can give either good feelings or not good feelings, depending on whether you like cigars. So from a human perpective yes, its a rolled up leaf of a tob ...[text shortened]... also are part of what a cigar "IS".
No, a cigar is definitely NOT "just" a cigar! 🙂

I zee. Vell, az lonk az ve're not tokkink about penises.

Originally posted by Soothfast
I zee. Vell, az lonk az ve're not tokkink about penises.

When I was getting my BS in Psychology, there were 3 of us girls in the program and we were also sorority sisters as well, and the big joke between us our senior year was "sometimes a penis is just a penis". When we sat around drinking on the weekends, we always had a huge laugh over Freud and his concept of "penis envy". We started calling it "penis pity", lol.

Good times... 🙂

Originally posted by twhitehead
It is a computer. It computes. It is not however a man made computer nor to be confused with one.

[b]My memory has changed for remebering people.
It's like I cant remember anyone's name but when they stand in front of me, something prompts my brain to spit out the name.
I used to have a storage type memory , like pc's, but in the last ten years my ...[text shortened]... e usually don't realize it. We can do amazingly sophisticated tasks entirely subconsciously.

I think you misunderstood my "not very impressive" comment, but I didn't really communicate all that lucidly either.

The only way you can approach this situation, (ie understanding the full use for the brain), and not just the everyday uses that people have become complacent about, is to have a PREMISE. Without an absolute premise, (there are plenty of positive affirmations getting around, but it is really the intent behind these that is important), reality will always remain "shades of grey". That is because your mind is reflecting back what you have put into it.
Also understanding that anthrpomorphization of Spirit has been the biggest obstacle in understanding the 'Big Questions'. So this is essential if you are to disentangle what is true from what is fiction. (ie. what is not essential from what is pure and untainted)

So for me I started with a fairly simple visualization and affirmation of what I thought Spirit meant to me. I envisioned a ball of light inside my stomach that actually existed in another dimension, but was my main 'entry point' for a physical reminder on where to place my focus.
Along with the imaganary ball, I had a few affirmations that went with the ball. 'You are my guide. I will trust completely whatever life may throw at me because I know that I will gain from the experience, that my ball could deal with ANYTHING that 'negativity' threw at it.' something like that .

Thing is if you do engage your brain in this thankless and largely hit and miss affair, ie Zen, you have to get some basic concepts that would logically hook up the mundane with the extraordinary - with everything.

Now you dont parade around your new found affirmations. You live them. As new situations arise and you find yourself speaking differently (as a reflection of the new you - the fresh adept), After dealing with some simple problems that life throws at you, you begin to change. If you fail at understanding a life lesson, you will find it will be repeated(perhaps in a different way), until you 'get it'. After learning a few life lessons and then recognizing the elusive patterns that accompany with such new understanding/knowledge, you may find that the guy who made those affirmations and pictured a trancsedental ball inside their stomachs, is gone. Your life has changed in a non-linear way.
Once you recognize that , you start to see that the entirity of reality is orchestrated - down to the last atom, all the while making it seem as if we had complete free will in the matter, as if accidents were ...accidental!

Anyway, sorry for the digresion but I thought it may give you some insight into my understanding of the brain and ALL it's functions.
You have already pointed out that the brain will run most of the body, and that only some functions are 'manually' dealt with.
By now my ball is ready to explode out of my chest like an alien. And yet I remain calm and patient (looking) on the outside.
My ego is trying every trick in the book to talk me out of it, it will tell you how painful this process is,(even though there is rarely an serious side effects of spiritual enlightenment), it will throw any and every doubt that will delay the inevitable - that the ego has to die for something new to be born.(Hence the Zen term "Moment of Great Doubt"😉
"God" and "infinity" are not very well understood by most, but I believe they are extremly useful as words for explaining a situation. They have their place as words, but as anything definite, concrete, anything that any 'decent scientist' would bother with, well there is nothing really conclusive that you can say about either concept- except maybe that they are largely misunderstood by about 90% of the posters here for starters.

Nothing matters when trying to understand Spirit except that you follow the truth as you understand it. If it really is the truth, you will see me with the other truthseekers at the end of the tunnel. Haha...nah just kidding. I have only a very slight glimpse into what lays beyond. And as far as the predictions made by people about 'afterlife' and such, they really have no idea what comes next, because they are still looking at it linearly (ie AFTERlife).
Ok, did I finish my circular explanation in a satisfactory manner, or am I still just sounding like utter rubbish - as googlefudge thinks?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
"God" and "infinity" are not very well understood by most, but I believe they are extremly useful as words for explaining a situation. They have their place as words, but as anything definite, concrete, anything that any 'decent scientist' would bother with, well there is nothing really conclusive that you can say about either concept- except maybe that they are largely misunderstood by about 90% of the posters here for starters.

There is a concrete mathematical definition for "infinity". In fact there are so-called "trans-finite numbers" that reflect different gradations of infinity. "Countable infinity" is the "smallest" kind of infinity. A set S of objects is countably infinite if the objects can be put into one-to-one correspondence with the set N of natural numbers {1,2,3,...}. That is:

1) Every x in N is paired with exactly one y in S.

2) Every y in S is paired with exactly one x in N.

Quantum mechanics quantizes reality, and thereby appears to reduce all physical systems and processes to ones that have "only" countably infinite numbers of possible states and outcomes, respectively.

Originally posted by Soothfast
There is a concrete mathematical definition for "infinity". In fact there are so-called "trans-finite numbers" that reflect different gradations of infinity. "Countable infinity" is the "smallest" kind of infinity. A set S of objects is countably infinite if the objects can be put into one-to-one correspondence with the set N of natural numbers {1,2,3,. ...[text shortened]... have "only" countably infinite numbers of possible states and outcomes, respectively.

Indeed.

The universe (according to the ridiculously strongly confirmed quantum theory) is grainy.

It's digital.

And the laws of physics are Turing complete.

So while if the universe itself is infinite (currently unknown) it would have an infinite number
of possible states. Any finite object in that universe will be capable ONLY of a finite number
of states.

""God" and "infinity" are not very well understood by most, but I believe they are extremly useful as words for explaining a situation. They have their place as words, but as anything definite, concrete, anything that any 'decent scientist' would bother with, well there is nothing really conclusive that you can say about either concept- except maybe that they are largely misunderstood by about 90% of the posters here for starters.

Are you saying that about 10% of posters here do understand the concepts of "God" and "Infinity" 😕

Originally posted by Suzianne
Surely you've heard the phrase before, yes?

From the Wikipedia page for "Cigar":

Sigmund Freud, the founder of Psychoanalysis, smoked 20 cigars a day, despite health warnings from colleagues. Because of his frequent references to phallic symbolism, it is often claimed that his colleagues challenged him on the "phallic" shape of the cigar. Freud is s ...[text shortened]... t a cigar," however, there are no records of such a conversation ever having taken place.

As I said:

"And, of course, the other connotations and imputations, you are no doubt referring to, they also are part of what a cigar "IS".

I worked in the field of psychiatry, Freud and his phallic mysteries are old friends, as is the story. Sometimes one doesn't include everything that is peripheral to the main point one is making.

Originally posted by Soothfast
I zee. Vell, az lonk az ve're not tokkink about penises.

Now that is a topic not touched upon much here - The Phallus as a religious symbol, found in numerous religions, ancient and modern, nor do we see the traditions of sacred prostitution discussed. But, heaven forbid, let's not include 'feeeelthy sex' in one's spirituality. Ever heard of Shiva? Tantra?

The Christian Church has a lot to answer to in its debasement of mature and natural sexual development. Hear those guilt bells ringing? That's the core of much of their protesting and moralistic carry-ons and personal manipulations by imposition of inappropriate gulit upon others, with its serious damage to self esteem. One would hope their repressive sexual moralism is not a displacement defense mechanism, provoked by all that guilt and unnatural attitudes towards the most basic human drive.
The history of the Christian Church is almost a history of sexual repression itself and resultant hypocritical hidden excesses by its very proponents.
Oh, those Inquisition torture chambers were so Freudian, don't you think? Lots of concentration and especially manufactured instruments for the private parts. Sick!
Thousands of crimes against children by these "moral guardians" here in Australia are now being uncovered as elsewhere globally by the outcomes of this very unwholesome and negative attitude towards sex - and to "sin-bearing" women.

Have you noticed that subject is one thing they get real het up about, but ignore the big stuff - poverty, nuclear armaments, awful wars, planetary climate change, starvation (including millions of children), corruption and crime. There used to be those who saw issues like this to be fought for in the name of Christ but all we hear about these days is some sex related issue, sex, sex and more sex. Funny that.
Just one note whistling away responsibility to do something significant for a suffering world in the name of their Christ. One way they could make Christianity relevant today and they FAIL miserably!

Originally posted by kevcvs57
""God" and "infinity" are not very well understood by most, but I believe they are extremly useful as words for explaining a situation. They have their place as words, but as anything definite, concrete, anything that any 'decent scientist' would bother with, well there is nothing really conclusive that you can say about either concept- except maybe that th ...[text shortened]... that about 10% of posters here do understand the concepts of "God" and "Infinity" 😕

I'm not sure what folks are getting, but I do wonder if the main point I was trying to make is forgotten. This often happens. That's ok.

How can something that is said to be infinite (not in the countable numerical sense but as a state) have any edges or form at all? If it does, it is finite, isn't it? Therefore, the rather simplistic belief in a God with some sort of "body" or figure or form is problematical. I wanted to provoke some more expanded thinking about how theists perceive their "God". There are varieties of theism that try to tackle this, including Pantheism and Panentheism.

Anyway, the discussion is going all over the place - it's all fun.

Originally posted by Soothfast
Storage capacity of any device is taken to be the amount of data that the device can store at one time. So, you don't get to say an 8 GB thumb drive has an infinite capacity because you can keep erasing it and putting new data on it, though it would be shrewd salesmanship.

Yes but what if you can recall whatever info you need at a certain time?

Originally posted by kevcvs57
""God" and "infinity" are not very well understood by most, but I believe they are extremly useful as words for explaining a situation. They have their place as words, but as anything definite, concrete, anything that any 'decent scientist' would bother with, well there is nothing really conclusive that you can say about either concept- except maybe that th ...[text shortened]... that about 10% of posters here do understand the concepts of "God" and "Infinity" 😕

10% have an idea. We all contribute to the collective understanding.
(I assume you were talking to me)

Originally posted by Taoman
As I said:

"And, of course, the other connotations and imputations, you are no doubt referring to, they also are part of what a cigar "IS".

I worked in the field of psychiatry, Freud and his phallic mysteries are old friends, as is the story. Sometimes one doesn't include everything that is peripheral to the main point one is making.

But you seemingly treated what he said at its most basic level, completely disregarding what you must have known he meant. One may not include everything that is peripheral, but at least acknowledging the actual meaning of what he said would have been more preferable than restating a rather uninspiring synopsis of the words he used, without regard to the actual meaning of them to the speaker. I mean that when most people take part in a conversation, they listen to what the other person says, instead of merely waiting for them to finish so they can begin speaking, which is the overall effect you gave by ignoring the actual meaning of his words.

Edit: I know I shouldn't open this can of worms, either, but psychiatry is not psychology. Just to be clear.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
10% have an idea. We all contribute to the collective understanding.
(I assume you were talking to me)

Yeah sorry I must have hit the wrong reply button.

I must have missed them post's, I will not argue about the Infinity thing because I just hear a whistling noise above my head when posters discuss it, but I think 0% of us have a clue about God, even supposing any such entity exists.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
Yeah sorry I must have hit the wrong reply button.

I must have missed them post's, I will not argue about the Infinity thing because I just hear a whistling noise above my head when posters discuss it, but I think 0% of us have a clue about God, even supposing any such entity exists.

TO INFINITY AND BEYOND


Buzz Lightyear.