1. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    24 Mar '06 19:44
    If God exists and he is an inclusive God then there must be a way of coming to faith without having to have a theology/philosophy degree. If it really did require extensive and complex debate (like that which we see on this forum) then what happens to those who have limited intellectual understanding like children or those with learning difficulties . Are they to be denied heaven because their lack of deductive reasoning is not up to scratch? Are those who haven't heard of existentialism to be excluded? If they were, Atheists would be up in arms saying things like "God's an elitist!" or "How can a loving God make it like that?!" . So why all this striving for philosophical 'proof' ? A loving God would find a way of bypassing it all anyway. Even if he could be prooved , the 'proof' would probably be inaccessible to large numbers of people. Divine revelation is the great leveller , the humiliation of intellect. God is an equal opportunities employer, let's get used to it.
  2. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    bigdogghouse.com/RHP
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    24 Mar '06 20:11
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    If God exists and he is an inclusive God then there must be a way of coming to faith without having to have a theology/philosophy degree. If it really did require extensive and complex debate (like that which we see on this forum) then what happens to those who have limited intellectual understanding like children or those with learning difficulties . ...[text shortened]... iliation of intellect. God is an equal opportunities employer, let's get used to it.
    Matthew 7:14 (New International Version)

    But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
  3. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    24 Mar '06 20:192 edits
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    If God exists and he is an inclusive God then there must be a way of coming to faith without having to have a theology/philosophy degree. If it really did require extensive and complex debate (like that which we see on this forum) then what happens to those who have limited intellectual understanding like children or those with learning difficulties . iliation of intellect. God is an equal opportunities employer, let's get used to it.
    Psalm 119:130
    The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.

    Only God can open your heart to the Gospel
    Luke 24:45
    Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

    Psalm 14:1-7

    1 The fool says in his heart,
    "There is no God."
    They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
    there is no one who does good.
    2 The LORD looks down from heaven
    on the sons of men
    to see if there are any who understand,
    any who seek God.

    3 All have turned aside,
    they have together become corrupt;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one.

    4 Will evildoers never learn—
    those who devour my people as men eat bread
    and who do not call on the LORD ?

    5 There they are, overwhelmed with dread,
    for God is present in the company of the righteous.

    6 You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
    but the LORD is their refuge.

    7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion!
    When the LORD restores the fortunes of his people,
    let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!
  4. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
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    24 Mar '06 20:41
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    Only God can open your heart to the Gospel
    If only God can do this, and if God loves everyone and wants them
    to come to Him, then why doesn't He just open everyone's heart?

    Nemesio
  5. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
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    24 Mar '06 20:43
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    If only God can do this, and if God loves everyone and wants them
    to come to Him, then why doesn't He just open everyone's heart?

    Nemesio
    Hmmmmm. Good question!
  6. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    24 Mar '06 20:46
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    If only God can do this, and if God loves everyone and wants them
    to come to Him, then why doesn't He just open everyone's heart?

    Nemesio
    Good Question.
    I say for you then to pray to God to open your heart and forgive you of your sins. And then start reading the Bible going to a Bible believing Church and then pray about that to God.
  7. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
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    24 Mar '06 21:17
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    Good Question.
    I say for you then to pray to God to open your heart and forgive you of your sins. And then start reading the Bible going to a Bible believing Church and then pray about that to God.
    So which comes first: the chicken or the egg?
  8. Standard memberorfeo
    Missing 285 + 1
    On a ship of fools
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    24 Mar '06 22:11
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    If God exists and he is an inclusive God then there must be a way of coming to faith without having to have a theology/philosophy degree. If it really did require extensive and complex debate (like that which we see on this forum) then what happens to those who have limited intellectual understanding like children or those with learning difficulties . ...[text shortened]... iliation of intellect. God is an equal opportunities employer, let's get used to it.
    Of course it doesn't require extensive and complex debate. Those who 'have limited intellectual understanding' tend to skip all this crap and just make a decision.
  9. Joined
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    24 Mar '06 22:24
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    If God exists and he is an inclusive God then there must be a way of coming to faith without having to have a theology/philosophy degree. If it really did require extensive and complex debate (like that which we see on this forum) then what happens to those who have limited intellectual understanding like children or those with learning difficulties . ...[text shortened]... iliation of intellect. God is an equal opportunities employer, let's get used to it.
    I suspect the extensive debate is detrimental if anything. I came on to this site a theist and left an atheist (techincally I am an atheist because this entails no belief in a supernatural. But I do believe in God). But being an atheist who feels he has the truth I could not go back to being a theist.
  10. Joined
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    24 Mar '06 22:51
    I like the fact that there's only a space character difference between atheist and a theist.
  11. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    25 Mar '06 10:04
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    If only God can do this, and if God loves everyone and wants them
    to come to Him, then why doesn't He just open everyone's heart?

    Nemesio
    Obviously that would take away choice and reduce us to robots. Even God can't force a man to love him otherwise it wouldn't be love , it has to be a free choice. If you had the power to force someone to love you would it be love? I think it's the same with the opening of hearts , the key to our hearts is on the inside. God could take away that key but then we would lose our humanity and autonomy and Atheists would complain that he had created a race of robots who had to choose him and love him. So God can't win , he either gives you free will and risks you not choosing him or he takes away your free will and makes the whole exercise pointless. He could of course not bother creating you in the first place but he would then lose the chance of sharing his nature with you. The free will thing is crucial in all this , don't you see?
  12. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    25 Mar '06 11:23
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    I suspect the extensive debate is detrimental if anything. I came on to this site a theist and left an atheist (techincally I am an atheist because this entails no belief in a supernatural. But I do believe in God). But being an atheist who feels he has the truth I could not go back to being a theist.
    What kind of gibberish is this? God is a supernatural entity. If you believe in god then you believe in the supernatural. They are inseperable. If you believe in a god then you are NOT an atheist. Atheism means lack of belief in god(s), not lack of belief in supernatural phenomena. If you believe in a god (however weakly), then you are a theist.
  13. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    25 Mar '06 11:25
    Originally posted by stocken
    I like the fact that there's only a space character difference between atheist and a theist.
    The 'a', or course, means 'without.' An atheist is someone without theism. That little 'a' makes for a very large difference.
  14. The sky
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    25 Mar '06 11:54
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Obviously that would take away choice and reduce us to robots.
    RBHILL said: "Only God can open your heart to the Gospel". Obviously that would take away choice. If it isn't possible to understand God's message if your heart isn't opened, and God doesn't open my heart, I can't make an informed decision. If God would open everybody's heart so that they could understand the message, they would still have the choice to reject the message. If the message really is as great as Christians believe, I guess very few (if any) people would reject it. That doesn't mean they don't have a choice.

    Imagine someone is giving you the choice between a piece of bread and a piece of cake. He tells you what the bread is made of and lets you taste it, but he hides the cake. He gives you a description of it which you can't quite understand. It sounds like it might be good, but it might also be poisonous. What choice would you make? Would it be a real choice? If you don't get the necessary information, you can't make a real choice.
  15. Territories Unknown
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    25 Mar '06 12:32
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    If only God can do this, and if God loves everyone and wants them
    to come to Him, then why doesn't He just open everyone's heart?

    Nemesio
    Ask and you will receive.
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