Originally posted by BigDoggProblem And the belief that there is a God who is on your side and helping you through life's lil' problems is not? It's like the ultimate imaginary friend.
Originally posted by twhitehead The main reason that I am more athiest than agnostic is because my reason and common sense tell me clearly that there is no God. Why do so many people assume that common sense is common to all people? I have seen creationists make common sense claims about things that make no sense at all to many other people.
And what do you base that conclusion on?
I agree that, sadly, common sense isn't all that common any more.
Originally posted by DragonFriend If God wasn't real, I'd agree with you. But I know for a fact that He is. I know you would probably just dismiss away my knowledge and experience with Him but that doesn't change His existance one iota.
My faith in God isn't blind, as you assume. It's based on logic, reason, and experience.
DF
Anytime you claim to know as a fact that which cannot be proven, you are going on blind faith. Why do you christians bend so far over backwards to try to show your faith is 'rational?' It isn't and never will be. If it was rational then you wouldn't need faith. Faith becomes necessary because your belief lacks any basis in reason. Faith and reason are wholly incompatible. If you want to have faith that's fine, but don't try to claim your faith is rational.
Originally posted by knightmeister Can you show me this eternity you speak of? I'm all ears!
Also , "you are not eternal so how could you know anything eternal" oops! doesn't add up! By this reasoning I could not know radiation or gravity because I am not these things , but put me in a nuclear reactor or throw me off a bridge and I'll beg to differ!
actually, you both are subject to, and emit, gravity and radiation. however, you are just a temporary configuration of mass and energy, so how could you ever know if anything was eternal?
Originally posted by knightmeister You have moved the goal posts on this one. I was trying to get you to explain your seeing of eternity in nature. At least I've had a go at explaining my version of eternity.
Also , what place is it of yours to say that Spirituality has no place in these things? If you think you do have the right to(or place ) to say this then you are guilty of the very thing you criticise.
i only brought nature into it because it seems absurd to me that some people can imagine an eternal god, but not eternal nature. i don't know eternal nature, how could i? i guess you're just lucky that you happen to subscribe to the only real religion. maybe your god came to you and told you that the earth is really only 6000 years old, but i'm still waiting. if you expect me in the meantime to trust the word of a book that is full of contradiction and internally inconsistent, no thanks. furthermore, i feel sorry for you if the most you get out of your religion is a dubious history lesson.
Originally posted by rwingett Anytime you claim to know as a fact that which cannot be proven, you are going on blind faith. Why do you christians bend so far over backwards to try to show your faith is 'rational?' It isn't and never will be. If it was rational then you wouldn't need faith. Faith becomes necessary because your belief lacks any basis in reason. Faith and reason are wholl ...[text shortened]... ble. If you want to have faith that's fine, but don't try to claim your faith is rational.
So you're saying that it's unreasonable to believe in the things I've experienced first hand. Only a fool denies what he himself has experienced to be true. I have no more faith in the existance of God than I do of my own. I know God to exist. My faith is in the promises of God and in His plan for the future.
Why do I think my faith is rational? Because it stems from reason. I know for a fact that the one true and living God exists. And He has proven Himself to be a god of His word. So I rightly conclude that He will keep His promises, and such is my faith.
Originally posted by DragonFriend Oh really. Please explain why it is illogical and unreasonable for me to build on what I have experienced first hand.
DF
Your statement, "...my faith is based on logic..." is self-contradictory. Faith is the firm belief in something for which there is no proof.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem Your statement, "...my [b]faith is based on logic..." is self-contradictory. Faith is the firm belief in something for which there is no proof.[/b]
I have no proof that God will keep His promises. But I do have faith that He will stay consistent to His word, and thus His promises will be kept.
My faith is in God to keep His word. I have this faith because it is logical to assume He will since He always has in the past. Does that make sense?
[Edit] You may be thinking of a beginning Christian. At first, we have faith that God exists. When He shows Himself to us, our faith in his existance becomes knowledge. We then have faith in His word.
Originally posted by DragonFriend I have no proof that God will keep His promises. But I do have faith that He will stay consistent to His word, and thus His promises will be kept.
My faith is in God to keep His word. I have this faith because it is logical to assume He will since He always has in the past. Does that make sense?
[Edit] You may be thinking of a beginning Christian. A ...[text shortened]... mself to us, our faith in his existance becomes knowledge. We then have faith in His word.
DF
The problem is, if things don't turn out the way you want them to, or expect them to, it is too easy to claim that you simply misread God's will, or that God never willed it in the first place. God is given credit for being right by default, and you will adjust your view of outside circumstances such that God remains always in the right. If you did not, your entire belief system would collapse.
God is for idiots(lol)!!
28 Mar '06 17:20
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