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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member apathist
    looking for loot
    07 Mar '18 05:24 / 1 edit
    God made everything that exists. Evil exists.So who is to blame for the existence of evil?
  2. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    07 Mar '18 05:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @apathist
    God made everything
    I'm guessing you would rather go with 'nothing' made everything?
  3. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    07 Mar '18 05:31
    Originally posted by @apathist
    God made everything that exists. Evil exists.So who is to blame for the existence of evil?
    “When you say there’s too much evil in this world you assume there’s good. When you assume there’s good, you assume there’s such a thing as a moral law on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil. But if you assume a moral law, you must posit a moral Law Giver, but that’s Who you’re trying to disprove and not prove. Because if there’s no moral Law Giver, there’s no moral law. If there’s no moral law, there’s no good. If there’s no good, there’s no evil. What is your question?”

    —Ravi Zacharias
  4. Standard member apathist
    looking for loot
    07 Mar '18 13:27
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    I'm guessing you would rather go with 'nothing' made everything?
    When I don't know, I'd rather go with "I don't know". Maybe we were made on purpose, but if things that exist MUST have been made on purpose, we just started stacking turtles.
  5. Standard member apathist
    looking for loot
    07 Mar '18 13:35
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    “When you say there’s too much evil in this world you assume there’s good. When you assume there’s good, you assume there’s such a thing as a moral law on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil. But if you assume a moral law, you must posit a moral Law Giver, ...


    —Ravi Zacharias[/b]
    Okay.

    ...but that’s Who you’re trying to disprove and not prove. Because if there’s no moral Law Giver, there’s no moral law. If there’s no moral law, there’s no good. If there’s no good, there’s no evil. What is your question?

    I asked if God made everything and evil exists then who is responsible for the existence of evil.

    I'm not attempting to prove there are no gods. Maybe I'm checking to see if bible-lovers are afraid to answer direct honest questions.
  6. 07 Mar '18 13:40
    Originally posted by @apathist
    God made everything that exists. Evil exists.So who is to blame for the existence of evil?
    Correct.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    07 Mar '18 13:57
    Originally posted by @apathist
    God made everything that exists. Evil exists.So who is to blame for the existence of evil?
    The word "evil" refers to certain kinds of morally unsound behaviour. It is a human (i.e. mundane) social construct, not a supernatural one, even if many humans do superimpose such notions onto the concept in their efforts to make sense of the human condition.

    I would suggest that "evil" is egregious immorality (as already defined in other discussions) and gratuitous, sociopathic action that is gravely detrimental and/or damaging to others, and which stems from an abject lack or even absence of empathy and compassion.

    To avoid confusion, it's probably best used as an adjective rather than a noun. It's not a 'thing' that exists or that was instituted by an evil being.

    The word "evil" is simply an adjective that is more loaded up with disapproval than the word "bad".
  8. Standard member apathist
    looking for loot
    07 Mar '18 14:00
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    “When you say there’s too much evil in this world you assume there’s good. When you assume there’s good, you assume there’s such a thing as a moral law on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil. But if you assume a moral law, you must posit a moral Law Giver, ..."
    We can't tell right from wrong unless we are told? We are all told all kinds of stuff. So we have to make decisions.

    Why did I not just figure out where our moral laws come from?
  9. Standard member apathist
    looking for loot
    07 Mar '18 14:14
    Originally posted by @fmf
    ... an abject lack or even absence of empathy and compassion. ...
    I'd add more and say evil is taking enjoyment from the suffuring of others. Schadenfreude.
  10. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    07 Mar '18 14:56
    Originally posted by @apathist
    I'd add more and say evil is taking enjoyment from the suffuring of others. Schadenfreude.
    I disagree. While I'd say taking enjoyment from the suffering of others could well be evil in some cases, I don't think there has to be an element of taking enjoyment from the suffering of others in order for behaviour to be evil.
  11. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    07 Mar '18 15:52
    Originally posted by @apathist
    God made everything that exists. Evil exists.So who is to blame for the existence of evil?
    Or perhaps the universe and everything in it has 'always' existed (in one form or another). There was no 'creation,' no beginning (as finite humans understand it) no (one off) 'Big Bang.'

    This being the case (as is believed by millions of people around the Earth) God created neither good or evil. They have always existed. (In one form or another).
  12. 07 Mar '18 16:41
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    I'm guessing you would rather go with 'nothing' made everything?
    If made implies maker, I'd rather go with "everything wasn't made", in an argument for the existence of a maker, to avoid the fallacy of begging the question (petitio principii).
  13. Standard member apathist
    looking for loot
    07 Mar '18 20:01
    Originally posted by @fmf
    I disagree. While I'd say taking enjoyment from the suffering of others could well be evil in some cases, I don't think there has to be an element of taking enjoyment from the suffering of others in order for behaviour to be evil.
    I know you say evil is just an upper level of bad. One of the most horrible thing I'm aware of is that some creatures paralyze their prey and plant eggs in them. The eggs get a living host to feed on as they grow up. Are these parasites evil?
  14. Standard member apathist
    looking for loot
    07 Mar '18 20:06
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Or perhaps the universe and everything in it has 'always' existed (in one form or another). There was no 'creation,' no beginning (as finite humans understand it) no (one off) 'Big Bang.'
    ...
    This philosophical question is the most difficult I know of. Either the universe existed forever, or it had a beginning. Neither answer works, and I've never heard of another answer.
  15. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    07 Mar '18 20:13
    Originally posted by @apathist
    This philosophical question is the most difficult I know of. Either the universe existed forever, or it had a beginning. Neither answer works, and I've never heard of another answer.
    Perhaps it works if we accept that time is a human construct.