Originally posted by Nemesio If you think it is lawful and just to kill the first-born innocents of
a nation, then you and I are talking about two different Gods.
Originally posted by Nemesio That's right. Your 'god' is a barbarian and sicko and my God embraces
compassion and justice.
Thanks for confirming this!
Nemesio
And yours, as you've already implicitly pointed out many times, is not the God of the Bible. He is the god of the non-literal-book-of-fiction-as-seen-by-Nemesio.
Originally post by KnightWulfe Would not then India be another heathen nation? Based upon your words, you could murder a billion East Indians and be justified in the eyes of your God, since they are heathen Hindu.
Originally posted by joelek No, I couldn't murder anyone in the eyes of my God and be justified. I would not be following the principles He has given me by which to live.
There's a big difference between God ending life in judgment and me going around being some religious vigilante. I have no authorization from God to do any such thing.
By the way, there are a lot of Christian ...[text shortened]... . If you don't think God's ways of doing things "cut it," I'd say you have a bigger issue.
No, I couldn't murder anyone in the eyes of my God and be justified. I would not be following the principles He has given me by which to live.
There's a big difference between God ending life in judgment and me going around being some religious vigilante. I have no authorization from God to do any such thing.
Apologies for the generalization - You are correct, there are many in India who are not Hindu.... but the question is still there.... You would be fine if God dropped dead every follower of the Hindu religion on the planet, since they are all heathens?
After all, that is what you are saying about the Egyptians that he feld then....
As far as not "cutting it" goes, that's not really my problem. If you don't think God's ways of doing things "cut it," I'd say you have a bigger issue.
As far as my issues with your God and "cutting it" - Not an issue for me, since I dont believe in your God, but you are most welcome to believe as you will.
Originally posted by joelek If you have Firefox, type [b]dict murder in the address bar. If you're still running Internet Explorer, go to www.dictionary.com and type murder in the search box. The first definition you'll get is:
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
God's judgment is neither unlawful nor malicious.[/b]
In law, the term "malice" has it relates to murder is intent to kill without justifiable excuse (i.e. self-defense or other defenses). There are other states of mind which lead to actions that cause death (i.e. recklessness or extreme negligence) which can lead to lesser homicide charges like manslaughter or negligent homicide. Thus, God's intent would certainly be to cause the deaths and then you are left with whether any entity can be above the law even if he creates it. In human legal systems, at least those which aren't arbitrary dictatorships, the answer is "no" at least so far as criminal statutes are concerned.
Originally posted by KnightWulfe but the question is still there.... You would be fine if God dropped dead every follower of the Hindu religion on the planet, since they are all heathens?
That would be a tragedy. I would like to see them come to know Christ. That does not mean God is not justified in doing what you suggest.
For that matter, God would be perfectly justified if He wanted to strike me down this instant.
Originally posted by no1marauder In law, the term "malice" has it relates to murder is intent to kill without justifiable excuse (i.e. self-defense or other defenses). There are other states of mind which lead to actions that cause death (i.e. recklessness or extreme negligence) which can lead to lesser homicide charges like manslaughter or negligent homicide. Thus, God's intent woul ...[text shortened]... rbitrary dictatorships, the answer is "no" at least so far as criminal statutes are concerned.
God is not subject to any human law. If He were, He would by definition not be God. So how can His judgments be considered to be unlawful?
Originally posted by joelek God is not subject to any human law. If He were, He would by definition not be God. So how can His judgments be considered to be [b]unlawful?[/b]
That argument is circular (and the second premise is dubious). I was addressing your relying on a dictionary definition; if you simply are going to assert that God can't be morally subject to any standards, do so but don't use legal reasoning where it doesn't belong.
Originally posted by no1marauder That argument is circular (and the second premise is dubious). I was addressing your relying on a dictionary definition; if you simply are going to assert that God can't be morally subject to any standards, do so but don't use legal reasoning where it doesn't belong.
Well, I'm not so sure it's circular. I think the notion of murder does not apply to the judgment on Egypt because God was not being unlawful in so doing. That's not circular reasoning.
However, now that you broach it, God is subject to His own moral standards, many of which are revealed in the Bible. And He certainly does not violate those in His actions. His moral standards include justice.
Originally posted by joelek Well, I'm not so sure it's circular. I think the notion of murder does not apply to the judgment on Egypt because God was not being unlawful in so doing. That's not circular reasoning.
However, now that you broach it, God is subject to His own moral standards, many of which are revealed in the Bible. And He certainly does not violate those in His actions. His moral standards include justice.
Then you don't understand what a circular argument is. Here your conclusion is the same as your first premise. That is a classic circular argument.
P1 God is not subject to any human law.
P2 If He were, He would by definition not be God.
C So, therefore His judgments are not unlawful
Egypt was a heathen nation, deserving of the judgment of God.
Who at that time was not worthy of God's judgement? Could God have picked anyone less deserving of punishment than a newborn Egyptian baby? Were those firstborn Egyptians that were infants guilty of the crimes of their forefathers? If you must punish a nation is it more just to murder the infants guilty of nothing more than being born in the wrong place or to murder adults who have chosen to behave wickedly?
I can't believe the number of people out there that have a hard time understanding the difference between judgment and murder.
I can't believe the number of people out there that promote slaughtering babies in the name of God.
Originally posted by joelek And yours, as you've already implicitly pointed out many times, is not the God of the Bible. He is the god of the non-literal-book-of-fiction-as-seen-by-Nemesio.
…the non-literal-book-of-fiction…
There is no fiction in the Bible? There is nothing non-literal in the Bible?
Originally posted by Nemesio Originally posted by Halitose [b]1) God created this whole universe; who are you to say what He may or may not do? He is the giver of life and can just as easily take it away.
So the God who gave us moral guidelines is in no way bound to them?
God can lie, steal, cheat, murder, and fornicate with utter impunity (after all,
He made us, right ...[text shortened]... on and love,
then envisioning a God who can and does murder with impunity is absurd.
Nemesio[/b]
If God can perform acts which run contrary to His Law, then who is to say
that 'His Word' isn't one big lie?
This is actually a great dilemma, Nemesio:
Option 1: God can perform acts which run contrary to His Law, then who is to say that 'His Word' (moral law) isn't one big lie?
Option 2: The Bible is inaccurate in its recording of God, then who is to say that 'His Word' (in this case the Bible) isn't one big lie?
God murdered....
08 Dec '05 18:16
Back to Top