Spirituality
08 Dec 05
08 Dec 05
Originally posted by ColettiAn asteroid cannot commit intentional acts. A bull cannot commit pre-meditated intentional acts, and perhaps not truly intentional acts at all.
It's impossible for God to commit murder - only men can murder. God defines murder for us through his commandment. He did not say "I shall not murder" he said "you shall not murder". God may or may not take away someone's life - it is his prerogative - but the Law applies to the acts of men.
If a bull runs down a man and kills him, is that murder ...[text shortened]... lling people against God's will. Sin is acts commited by people against God's expressed will.
Presumably God can.
You quote from the Commandments does not define murder. It just gives an instruction not to do it.
Your boss may say, "Don't come into my office." Does that mean he isn't logically capable of going into his office?
08 Dec 05
Originally posted by ColettiNeither an asteriod nor a bull kills knowingly and with malice, so no, neither of those examples is murder. But god did kill with intent. Even if it's not strictly 'murder' it's still not terrible kosher. Unless you're justifying the slaughter of innocents that is.
It's impossible for God to commit murder - only men can murder. God defines murder for us through his commandment. He did not say "I shall not murder" he said "you shall not murder". God may or may not take away someone's life - it is his prerogative - but the Law applies to the acts of men.
If a bull runs down a man and kills him, is that murder ...[text shortened]... lling people against God's will. Sin is acts commited by people against God's expressed will.
08 Dec 05
Originally posted by ColettiAnd in any manner he wishes? I wonder why people are stressing that the Egyptian children died peacefully in their sleep. It would seem that to you it is morally irrelevant how they died.
God can kill for any reason he wishes. He created it, he can destroy it. He gives and takes life according to his own counsel.
08 Dec 05
Originally posted by ColettiRight. Similarly, God can lie, steal, and do all sorts of other
It's impossible for God to commit murder - only men can murder. God defines murder for us through his commandment. He did not say "I shall not murder" he said "you shall not murder". God may or may not take away someone's life - it is his prerogative - but the Law applies to the acts of men.
things He defines as sin for humankind because He is above it.
Nemesio
09 Dec 05
Originally posted by ColettiAnd we are expected to recognize this hypothetical god as the ultimate moral authority when he will not even abide by the most basic of moral laws? This argument is merely "might makes right".
God can kill for any reason he wishes. He created it, he can destroy it. He gives and takes life according to his own counsel.
09 Dec 05
Originally posted by dottewellI really pointed out the peacefulness of the killing because people were going on as if what happened to the children of Egypt was horrible.
And in any manner he wishes? I wonder why people are stressing that the Egyptian children died peacefully in their sleep. It would seem that to you it is morally irrelevant how they died.
However, the fact is that God gives life and God takes it away. He takes it when He chooses. And He will take the life of everyone on this forum away when He so chooses (unless Christ returns first).
The fact is that God appointed each of the children in Egypt to die, just as He appoints each person today to die. The point in time at which that occurs is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
How was putting those children to death during the passover any different from letting them live 40 more years first? Either way, God appointed all of them to die. For some reason, everyone (almost) on here is all wound up because a lot of them were appointed to die at the same time.
09 Dec 05
Originally posted by KnightWulfeWell if THATS bad, what about Noah and the flood, killed
I cannot seem to get a straight answer on this from another thread, and since this is a specific issue as part of a greater one, I am addressing it in a new thread.
For all of the Christians here....
How do you explain God murdering thousands of innocent children? It was the last of the plagues visited upon Egypt when Moses was pleading to the Phar ...[text shortened]... rse than there has ever been or ever will be again."
That is nothing other than mass murder.
EVERYONE except for a few on the ark....
09 Dec 05
Originally posted by joelekYou have to be kidding, right? Not even you can believe that putting a child to death and letting it live another 40 years are no different. Man, when I was a kid bible class used to bore the heck out of me, glad I gave it up if this is what it does to your brain!!!! Life is about living. Sure, we all die, but the manner in which we die is important, but living up until that day in a way that we can justify to ourselves, so that we go to our death happy with the life we lived is way way more important. These kids never had that choice. I'm sorry but i refuse to believe in some s*ithead who would do that to young kids.
I really pointed out the peacefulness of the killing because people were going on as if what happened to the children of Egypt was horrible.
However, the fact is that God gives life and God takes it away. He takes it when He chooses. And He will take the life of everyone on this forum away when He so chooses (unless Christ returns first).
The fact i ...[text shortened]... e (almost) on here is all wound up because a lot of them were appointed to die at the same time.
09 Dec 05
Originally posted by Halitose1) Two people that have a child made that life. They are murderers when they kill it. If I were somehow able to create an organism with life, I'm still a murderer when I kill it.
You want the fundy view? Well here goes:
1) God created this whole universe; who are you to say what He may or may not do? He is the giver of life and can just as easily take it away.
2) Murder is taking life that hasn't been sanctioned by a higher judicial/executive power. Is the dude who presses the button on the electric chair a murderer? No, becau ...[text shortened]... wn power.
Er...hmm...that's it, I guess.
😛 to you rwingo, was it that bad a hoop-jump?
2) Yes, the executioner is a murderer. Ye, a soldier is a murderer. No matter the excuse, a murderer is someone who ended the life of another being.
09 Dec 05
Originally posted by vistesdThanks for your thoughts, vistesd - there is definitely an option 3.
[b]Option 2: The Bible is inaccurate in its recording of God, then who is to say that 'His Word' (in this case the Bible) isn't one big lie?
or is there an Option 3 that I didn't notice?
Third option: to see the stories as stories, rather than as factual history. Hal, I was writing the stuff below when I read your post, so forgive me if it’s ...[text shortened]... or to convince the reader that the ugly really isn’t ugly simply because it is assigned to God.[/b]
09 Dec 05
Originally posted by TheMaster37I think you are confused between murder and killing.
1) Two people that have a child made that life. They are murderers when they kill it. If I were somehow able to create an organism with life, I'm still a murderer when I kill it.
2) Yes, the executioner is a murderer. Ye, a soldier is a murderer. No matter the excuse, a murderer is someone who ended the life of another being.
Murder is always killing, but killing isn't always murder.
09 Dec 05
Originally posted by TheMaster37If God exists and life after death is genuine then God killing babies is not murder but merely transmuting thier souls to a different state. Possibly to thier benefit. Many Christians would love to have a shortcut to heaven.
1) Two people that have a child made that life. They are murderers when they kill it. If I were somehow able to create an organism with life, I'm still a murderer when I kill it.
2) Yes, the executioner is a murderer. Ye, a soldier is a murderer. No matter the excuse, a murderer is someone who ended the life of another being.
The people who would suffer the most is thier parents - as God intended.
Also the theory put forward in this thread that God must somehow follow his own laws makes no sense at all. God does not need to teach by example nor does he answer to anyone.
Murder is not equal to killing.
The deaths of the babies can only be considered murder if you do not believe in God. In which case God could not have murdered them.