God(s) and Evil

The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are able and willing.

“If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can but will not, then they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent.

“Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, why does it exist?”

—Greek philosopher Epicurus (341-270 B.C.E.), Aphorism

Originally posted by 667joe
The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are able and willing.

“If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can but will not, then they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, they are neit ...[text shortened]... o annihilate evil, why does it exist?”

—Greek philosopher Epicurus (341-270 B.C.E.), Aphorism

Christians believe that all evil indeed WILL eventually be abolished with all death.

Many places assure us of this - IE. "But according to His promise we're expecting new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." ( 2 Peter 3:13)

So we know the climax towards which history is moving - "And He will wipe away every tear form their eyes; and death will be no more, nor will there be sorrow or crying or pain anymore; for the former things have passed away." (Rev. 21:4)

History is moving on this earth towards God removing sin and its effects.

In the process of God moving to this goal, He is pleased to allow time for sinners to repent and be saved from eternal judgment. He is also allowing time for a testimony of changed lives being sanctified and transformed from evil doing to expressing the life of Jesus Who lives within them.

Briefly, in the interim before the total illimination of the sinning nature Jesus taught His disciples - "You are the light of the world. It is impossible for a city situated upon a maountain to be hidden ... let your light shine before men, so that they may see your goodworks and glorify your Father who is in the heavens." (See Matt. 5:14,15)

The interim time is a time before sins complete elimination is a age for:

1.) Belief and repentance toward in the Son of God for salvation

2.) Testimony of changed lives certifying the life changing power of Christ.

We should take advantage of the interim process of time for forgiveness and transformation through Jesus Christ.

So you are saying that god is responsible for evil now in the world!

Originally posted by 667joe
So you are saying that god is responsible for evil now in the world!

In a way you could say that.

I would add that He is also responsible for forgiveness through Christ, sanctification through Christ, transformation through Christ and His second coming and kingdom and eternal age.

If you wish to capitalize on the sovereign providence of God for allowing men to have free will, it would be unwise to use that excuse not to participate in His perfect will.

Such a cleverness - ie " So God is responsible for my sins today " will do you no good in the end.

Originally posted by 667joe
So you are saying that god is responsible for evil now in the world!

The question seems geared to rationalize - "Aha! My sins I committed are God's fault. Gotcha! "

.... not

I am talking about evil, which includes more than sins. For example, why would a perfectly good person get cancer and have to suffer? God either allows it, or god doesn't. If god allows it, is he not evil if he could have prevented it? If you saw a blind person crossing the street with a car approaching and you did nothing about it when you could have intervened, would you not be evil? It is clear that if there is a god, he is very, very evil.

Originally posted by 667joe

I am talking about evil, which includes more than sins. For example, why would a perfectly good person get cancer and have to suffer?

If you love God, He has the uncanny power and ability to cause all things to work together for good.

We can consecrate all our misfortunes to God's transcendent sovereign ability to cause "all things" to work towards our good.

No one born in the world can avoid troubles. If in faith in Christ we lay all our situations and circumstances before God in trust, He will work them out to wrought the precious personality of Jesus into our personality. And that is the only precious thing we can take into the next age.

That is the Christ worked into our soul.

So the man of faith exercises to place both the good and the bad at God's feet, so to speak, that He may cause "all things to work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose." (Rom. 8:28)
Why do you think we are told the story of Jacob?
Why do you think we are told of the story of Joseph?
The lives of Moses, Rehab, Ruth, David ... and many others stand as testimonies to God's ability to engineer their circumstances (including their failures) into blessing, because they loved God.

While we should not hunt out and look for troubles, we can trust God with praise and thanksgiving in the troubles that are often unavoidable. He can make all things work together for good to them that love God.

God either allows it, or god doesn't. If god allows it, is he not evil if he could have prevented it? If you saw a blind person crossing the street with a car approaching and you did nothing about it when you could have intervened, would you not be evil? It is clear that if there is a god, he is very, very evil.

I think you can take the path of life's absurdity and dispair or you can take the path of trust in the God who causes all things to work together for good to them that love Him.

That is a decision you have to sit down and decide for yourself.
I have looked at the crucified Son of God, and decided the great blessing that came out of that tragedy certifies that God is able to cause all things to work together for good to them that love Him.

The Bible concludes with a city built with precious stones. This symbol means that all those who put their faith in God come out as transformed "gems" of divine life for the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose.

Symbolically, the heat, pressure, and flowing water deep in the earth turned out precious gems for the building up of God's house.

"The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every precious stone;

the first foundation was jasper;
the second, sapphire,
the third, chalcedony;
the fourth, emerald;
the fifth, sardonyx;
the sixth, sardius;
the seventh, chrysolite;
the eighth, beryl;
the ninth, topaz;
the tenth, chrysoprase;
the eleventh, jacinth;
the twelth, amethyst." (Rev. 21:19)

These gems are all transparent and shinny precious. They symbolize the redeemed believers transformed into people through whom the Triune God can shine through in clearest radiance.

If you are saved, you will still be you, 667joe. But you will be transparent and the divine life of God will be radiating from you.

What pressure, heat, weight of situations and circumstances upon you God uses in conjunction with the flowing water of His Spirit through you, to transform you into a son of God. All the sons are built up into a corporate expression of God in man.

So Paul says that the momentarily lightness of affliction is preparing for the lovers of Christ an eternal weight of glory.

2 Corinthians 4:17

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

17 For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison,

You glory in a father torturing and killing his son and then you absurdly day it's a good thing. You sound like an evil person to me!

Originally posted by 667joe
I am talking about evil, which includes more than sins. For example, why would a perfectly good person get cancer and have to suffer? God either allows it, or god doesn't. If god allows it, is he not evil if he could have prevented it? If you saw a blind person crossing the street with a car approaching and you did nothing about it when you could have intervened, would you not be evil? It is clear that if there is a god, he is very, very evil.

You clearly did not see that episode of Star Trek where McCoy goes back through a time portal and then within minutes, it's as if the Federation never existed because McCoy prevented a woman on 20th century earth from getting hit and killed by a car. This woman later created a peace movement that had global impact and the eventual result was that a world war was lost and the evil empire winning the war took over the earth and therefore the Federation was never brought into being.

You do not know God's plan. How can you judge God? Better to trust God than Man. If we never learn anything else in this world, learning that one thing makes the price of admission totally worth it.

You don't know god's plan either, but judging by the misery and suffering in the world, whatever gods plan is involves a lot of cruelty and suffering. God appears to be a sadist don't you think? I bet you keep away from people who cause pain and suffering. Why should it be different with god. (Of course, the most logical explanation is that god does not exist).

Originally posted by 667joe
You don't know god's plan either, but judging by the misery and suffering in the world, whatever gods plan is involves a lot of cruelty and suffering. God appears to be a sadist don't you think? I bet you keep away from people who cause pain and suffering. Why should it be different with god. (Of course, the most logical explanation is that god does not exist).

The 'misery and suffering' in this world is the product of sin ( "... the wages of sin is death..." -- Romans 6:23, KJV), of disobeying God. And what are you proposing to cure the 'misery and suffering'? More disobeying of God.

Genius.

So you are saying that god cannot eliminate sin. He sounds like he's not very potent. Refer back to the start of the thread.

Originally posted by Suzianne
You clearly did not see that episode of Star Trek where McCoy goes back through a time portal and then within minutes, it's as if the Federation never existed because McCoy prevented a woman on 20th century earth from getting hit and killed by a car. This woman later created a peace movement that had global impact and the eventual result was that a world w ...[text shortened]... thing else in this world, learning that one thing makes the price of admission totally worth it.

It seems that some people believe we are qualified in terms of our knowledge, to conclude that God is good, while at the same time they deny we are qualified in terms of knowledge to conclude that God is evil. But what we know and don't know is the same in both cases. It seems to me that in this situation, neither conclusion is justified.

Originally posted by 667joe
The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are able and willing.

“If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can but will not, then they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, they are neit ...[text shortened]... o annihilate evil, why does it exist?”

—Greek philosopher Epicurus (341-270 B.C.E.), Aphorism

Thread 159342

Shameless plug of my own thread which deals with god allowing 31 children to burn to death.

I think that's despicable.

Suzianne apparently feels that these children have sinned and deserve death.

Divegeester feels that all this talk of god allowing such horrible things to happen is weak and worn; divegeester prefers to not talk about that nasty side of god. "But what about them people that are anti-bloodtransfusions? Let's talk about them some more!"

RJHinds is just being his usual dumb self.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Thread 159342

Shameless plug of my own thread which deals with god allowing 31 children to burn to death.

I think that's despicable.

Suzianne apparently feels that these children have sinned and deserve death.

Divegeester feels that all this talk of god allowing such horrible things to happen is weak and worn; divegeester p ...[text shortened]... ransfusions? Let's talk about them some more!"[/i]

RJHinds is just being his usual dumb self.

RJ has not yet posted in this thread.