06 Jun '10 07:59>
For theists on this site who hold that God is "eternal", could you please describe what exactly this means to you?
I was reading an essay by Alvin Plantinga, and here is how he describes it (or roughly outlines it):
"Many theists, however, hold that God is eternal, and that this eternity involves at least the following two properties. First, his being eternal means that everything is present for him; for him there is no past or future....And, secondly, God's being eternal means that God is atemporal, 'outside of time' -- outside of time in such a way that it is in error to say of him that he knew some proposition or other at a time....the truth, instead, is that he knows this proposition eternally.
So, in short, Plantinga is saying that God's eternality is a thesis involving, minimally in his view, both that God is atemporal or beyond temporal relations and that everything is present for God. Plantinga himself does not endorse such a thesis; in fact, he goes on to say "I am inclined to believe that this thesis -- the thesis that God is both atemporal and such that everything is is present for him -- is incoherent."
So my next question is, is this view of God's eternality coherent?
And, lastly, even if it is in fact coherent up to this point, don't we run into incoherency if we then conjoin this with other common and basic theistic commitments? For instance, how could an "eternal" God as described above ever also be a causal agent? I would think a causal agent is, minimally, one who acts; actions are events; and events occur in time. So, how could a God who is atemporal and whose existence is beyond any temporal relations ever be an agent; or carry out any acts; or ever be causally responsible for anything?
Basic and traditional theistic commitments would have us believe that God is causally responsible for acts of creation; that He has interacted in various ways with His creation (causes miracles, hears and answers prayers, whatever else have you); that He has undergone change in the acquiring of different properties (as an example, in Christianity, that He became instantiated in human form). As far as I can tell, none of this is compatible with his also being "eternal" in the sense outlined above.
Ideas? I am looking for either different takes on what it means for God to be "eternal"; or potential ways to reconcile the above -- for example, alternative accounts regarding causation.
I was reading an essay by Alvin Plantinga, and here is how he describes it (or roughly outlines it):
"Many theists, however, hold that God is eternal, and that this eternity involves at least the following two properties. First, his being eternal means that everything is present for him; for him there is no past or future....And, secondly, God's being eternal means that God is atemporal, 'outside of time' -- outside of time in such a way that it is in error to say of him that he knew some proposition or other at a time....the truth, instead, is that he knows this proposition eternally.
So, in short, Plantinga is saying that God's eternality is a thesis involving, minimally in his view, both that God is atemporal or beyond temporal relations and that everything is present for God. Plantinga himself does not endorse such a thesis; in fact, he goes on to say "I am inclined to believe that this thesis -- the thesis that God is both atemporal and such that everything is is present for him -- is incoherent."
So my next question is, is this view of God's eternality coherent?
And, lastly, even if it is in fact coherent up to this point, don't we run into incoherency if we then conjoin this with other common and basic theistic commitments? For instance, how could an "eternal" God as described above ever also be a causal agent? I would think a causal agent is, minimally, one who acts; actions are events; and events occur in time. So, how could a God who is atemporal and whose existence is beyond any temporal relations ever be an agent; or carry out any acts; or ever be causally responsible for anything?
Basic and traditional theistic commitments would have us believe that God is causally responsible for acts of creation; that He has interacted in various ways with His creation (causes miracles, hears and answers prayers, whatever else have you); that He has undergone change in the acquiring of different properties (as an example, in Christianity, that He became instantiated in human form). As far as I can tell, none of this is compatible with his also being "eternal" in the sense outlined above.
Ideas? I am looking for either different takes on what it means for God to be "eternal"; or potential ways to reconcile the above -- for example, alternative accounts regarding causation.