1. Joined
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    20 Aug '05 18:35
    Why is God blamed for killing and allowing all the evil in the world and Satan gets away free and clear? God is blamed for tornadoes, earthquakes, evil in general and satan is rarely mentioned. If God is the cause of all the evil in the world....what is Satan's role?
    And yet the bible claims...
    2 Cor 4:3-4
    3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
    4 whose minds the god of this age(world) has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
    (NKJ)

    I Jn 5:19
    19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in {the power of} the evil one.
    (NAS)

    I Jn 5:19
    19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
    (NKJ)
  2. Standard memberDavid C
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    20 Aug '05 18:51
    Originally posted by checkbaitor
    Why is God blamed for killing and allowing all the evil in the world and Satan gets away free and clear? God is blamed for tornadoes, earthquakes, evil in general and satan is rarely mentioned. If God is the cause of all the evil in the world....what is Satan's role?
    And yet the bible claims...
    2 Cor 4:3-4
    3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is ve ...[text shortened]... 19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
    (NKJ)
    Well, if God is omnipotent, surely he has the Power to prevent Satan's evil from occuring, no?

    whose minds the god of this age(world) has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

    Holy cr*p! Mind if I use that line in the Astrotheology thread?
  3. Joined
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    20 Aug '05 19:26
    Originally posted by David C
    Well, if God is omnipotent, surely he has the Power to prevent Satan's evil from occuring, no?

    [b]whose minds the god of this age(world) has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.


    Holy cr*p! Mind if I use that line in the Astrotheology thread?[/b]
    Well then....why did He create him in the first place? Wouldn't that be a more appropriate question?
  4. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    20 Aug '05 19:451 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaitor
    Well then....why did He create him in the first place? Wouldn't that be a more appropriate question?
    Why shouldn't the creator of evil be considered evil?
  5. Standard memberDavid C
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    20 Aug '05 19:59
    Originally posted by checkbaitor
    Well then....why did He create him in the first place? Wouldn't that be a more appropriate question?
    Wasn't Satan an angel once? Who fell? So, no...the appropriate question would be why god allows him to continue to exist, if all he's going to do is wreak havoc on god's children. And god's puppies. And burn god's biscuits. And dent the fender on god's '67 cherry red Camaro.
  6. Standard memberPalynka
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    20 Aug '05 20:20
    Originally posted by David C
    Wasn't Satan an angel once? Who fell? So, no...the appropriate question would be why god allows him to continue to exist, if all he's going to do is wreak havoc on god's children. And god's puppies. And burn god's biscuits. And dent the fender on god's '67 cherry red Camaro.
    Maybe he needs a scapegoat to hide his sadism.
  7. Standard membermantawa
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    20 Aug '05 20:31
    Originally posted by checkbaitor
    Why is God blamed for killing and allowing all the evil in the world and Satan gets away free and clear? God is blamed for tornadoes, earthquakes, evil in general and satan is rarely mentioned. If God is the cause of all the evil in the world....what is Satan's role?
    And yet the bible claims...
    2 Cor 4:3-4
    3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is ve ...[text shortened]... 19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
    (NKJ)
    I think you should show us why God is not responsible for these things.
  8. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    20 Aug '05 21:10
    Originally posted by mantawa
    I think you should show us why God is not responsible for these things.
    What he doesn't seem to understand is that the very idea of an active Satan effecting the world is backsliding into polytheism.
  9. Standard memberDavid C
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    20 Aug '05 21:17
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Maybe he needs a scapegoat to hide his sadism.
    No doubt. That Camaro was f***in' mint, man.
  10. Standard memberRemoved
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    20 Aug '05 22:01
    Originally posted by David C
    Wasn't Satan an angel once? Who fell? So, no...the appropriate question would be why god allows him to continue to exist, if all he's going to do is wreak havoc on god's children. And god's puppies. And burn god's biscuits. And dent the fender on god's '67 cherry red Camaro.
    Of course satan was an angel once. And he was cast down for his rebellion. But God is omnipotent, that is He already knew satan would rebel before He created him. So why did he create evil in the first place?
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    20 Aug '05 22:381 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Of course satan was an angel once. And he was cast down for his rebellion. But God is omnipotent, that is He already knew satan would rebel before He created him. So why did he create evil in the first place?
    supposing there exists a god who exercises both omniscience and omnipotence, then the burden of responsibility for virtually everything and anything falls on his shoulders. if evil exists, it is because this god did not deem it necessary to be otherwise. if we are to conclude that he is not altogether morally repugnant, then it must the case that he knows such evil to be logically necessary for some greater good. so, i think in order to answer your question, we need to have a workable theory concerning how evil may benefit society. if your god exists, he clearly has such a theory; since he's your god, i think you should be the one to ask him politely if we may borrow it.
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    20 Aug '05 23:103 edits
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    supposing there exists a god who exercises both omniscience and omnipotence, then the burden of responsibility for virtually everything and anything falls on his shoulders. if evil exists, it is because this god did not deem it necessary to be otherwise. if we are to conclude that he is not altogether morally repugnant, then it must the case that he kno ...[text shortened]... ry; since he's your god, i think you should be the one to ask him politely if we may borrow it.
    Ok...how about this one.....There is a person you love. You want this person to love you. You have all this power, and can force this person. Would you want this person to love you because they have to? Or would you prefer this person to love you for who you are?
    I think this is why God created evil...so that we can know both good and evil, so that we could have a free choice.
    But if you reread the verses quoted earlier, Satan is trying to smear God's good name and character with lies and propaganda, and he is very good at it.
    So, my answer would be , God did not want robots. He wanted us to return His love freely and honestly.
  13. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    21 Aug '05 00:24
    Originally posted by checkbaitor
    Ok...how about this one.....There is a person you love. You want this person to love you. You have all this power, and can force this person. Would you want this person to love you because they have to? Or would you prefer this person to love you for who you are?
    I think this is why God created evil...so that we can know both good and evil, so that we c ...[text shortened]... answer would be , God did not want robots. He wanted us to return His love freely and honestly.
    How can you call "If you don't love ME ,I will toss you into a fire and have you tormented forever" not trying to use force?

    Here's the choice as you describe it : Love ME or I will kill you and not only that, I will send tempters constantly to test your love and you won't even know it's not your own self that thinks up the temptations.
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    21 Aug '05 01:22
    Originally posted by checkbaitor
    Ok...how about this one.....There is a person you love. You want this person to love you. You have all this power, and can force this person. Would you want this person to love you because they have to? Or would you prefer this person to love you for who you are?
    I think this is why God created evil...so that we can know both good and evil, so that we c ...[text shortened]... answer would be , God did not want robots. He wanted us to return His love freely and honestly.
    Ok...how about this one.....There is a person you love. You want this person to love you. You have all this power, and can force this person. Would you want this person to love you because they have to? Or would you prefer this person to love you for who you are?

    i would want this person to love me for who i am. but if i really love this person, i would not demand their love. i would not present them with the ultimatum that they either love me or suffer for all eternity. with these threats, i would not be demonstrating any love for this person; i would simply be using force and power to satisfy my own greedy egoism. your question 'Would you want this person to love you because they have to?' is extremely ironic: you do have to love your god, unless you consider an eternity in hell an appealing alternative.

    I think this is why God created evil...so that we can know both good and evil, so that we could have a free choice.

    as frogstomp already pointed out, it's not much of a choice after all: either you love and worship him, or you are absolutely dispensable in his view. either you stroke his gigantic ego, or you are thrown into the eternal fires without so much as an afterthought.

    So, my answer would be , God did not want robots. He wanted us to return His love freely and honestly.

    exactly what love are you 'returning'? he created you, and tells you to worship and love him or you are going to suffer for all eternity. how is this a demonstration of god's love for you? it is a demonstration of his enormous ego and power which he holds over you like a death sentence.

    if god does exist, then i would certainly hope that he is more interested in deeds, rather than faith. a deed-oriented god may introduce evil and suffering as a means to give us opportunity to lend a helping hand to others in need. this is the only viable way of serving god, and you don't even need to entertain the notion of his existence to get the old job done. in this sense, faith should be an accidental property, not an essential one.
  15. Standard memberRemoved
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    21 Aug '05 02:25
    i would not present them with the ultimatum that they either love me or suffer for all eternity. with these threats, i would not be demonstrating any love for this person; i would simply be using force and power to satisfy my own greedy egoism. your question 'Would you want this person to love you because they have to?' is extremely ironic: you do have to love your god, unless you consi ...[text shortened]... the old job done. in this sense, faith should be an accidental property, not an essential one.[/b]
    Ok...maybe the example wasn't the best one, but part of the equation.
    God invented life...He knows the best way to live life....we want to live our own lives....He created man for himself....life is ultimately fulfilled and enjoyed by loving/worshipping the creator of life.
    Life has been setup in such a way (because of Adam's sin) that all are going to die...God's intent originally was that man would live forever in fellowship with Him. But Adam blew it, by falling victim to satan...God wants to restore man to his original position. And that has been accomplished by Jesus Christ and all who are willing to accept Him. By creating satan in the first place, He has shown what evil is like and what God's goodness is like. Thus we have the choice. It is impossible to live your own life without satan's influence or without God's love. We were designed to worship and love our Creator.
    As far as hell, as I have posted in other threads, those who go there will burn up and be no more. Not eternal suffering as many have led us to believe. It does not fit God's nature/character. God is love and in our fallen state we cannot fully comprehend His love. He watched and allowed His son to suffer and die on a cross to save you and me from eternal seperation from Him. The parable Jesus taught about the prodigal son(I call it the loving father) is one of the examples of the love of God. God is represented by this father, who welcomed back his lost son.
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