Spirituality
09 Dec 05
09 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by HalitoseI think the real question would be asked of those who believe Jesus is god. Simply for the fact that my statement would not exist if the conditions were different.
[b]Not to mention the fact that, Jesus isn't god.
How did you reach this conclusion?[/b]
Since there must be a belief that Jesus is god, there must be a reason for that belief. Therefore the onus is on the believer to provide the reasons for belief.
That being said, if such a belief is proven, it becomes my responsibility to provide a reason for non-belief.
09 Dec 05
Originally posted by TetsujinYou asserted it as a fact to the contrary, hence my request for substantiation.
I think the real question would be asked of those who believe Jesus [b]is god. Simply for the fact that my statement would not exist if the conditions were different.
Since there must be a belief that Jesus is god, there must be a reason for that belief. Therefore the onus is on the believer to provide the reasons for belief.
That being said, if such a belief is proven, it becomes my responsibility to provide a reason for non-belief.[/b]
09 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by HalitoseIt is only contradictory to the presupposed "fact", one that awaits validation.
You asserted it as a [b]fact to the contrary, hence my request for substantiation.[/b]
Although I can see why you would not like me to make such a statement and claim it as fact, it is in no part different from the belief it contradicts.
Since my contratiction, as previously stated, is preceeded by the very idea it contradicts, there must be a reason for the acceptance of the preceeding idea, or my statement is unnecessary.
Your move.
09 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by TetsujinWell, this isn't really the thread topic, but since there seems to be discussion on it, ....
Not to mention the fact that, Jesus isn't god. But, that's another discussion.
I have to start with the Bible. If you don't believe the Bible, then I can't prove to your satisfaction that Jesus is God. But if you do claim to believe the Bible, you only have to look to John 1 (though there are numerous other places to look as well, if you so desire).
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
...
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
...
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
The Word is Jesus (pretty obvious from the context), and verse 1 clearly states the He was God.
[EDIT]Added elipses ...
09 Dec 05
2 edits
Originally posted by joelekWell... which bible do you believe in?
Well, this isn't really the thread topic, but since there seems to be discussion on it, ....
I have to start with the Bible. If you don't believe the Bible, then I can't prove to your satisfaction that Jesus is God. But if you do claim to believe the Bible, you only have to look to John 1 (though there are numerous other places to look as well, if yo ...[text shortened]... obvious from the context), and verse 1 clearly states the He was God.
[EDIT]Added elipses ...
I mean, I could easily say that the bible has been rewritten half a dozen times in the last 2000 years. There are several versions, and several versions within the same sect of christianity that can be found.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm more christian than the average christian, but I don't believe that jesus is god.
Edit: I'm not actually christian, or would profess to be of christian faith. Although, my faith encompasses many aspects of the christian faith.
09 Dec 05
Originally posted by TetsujinWell, the arguments I've made could come from any version of the Bible I've ever read. I've read from several, though admittedly not all. If you'd care to quote John 1 from some version that doesn't support my arguments, go ahead.
Well... which bible do you believe in?
Otherwise, you're just saying that maybe, somewhere, exists some supposed Bible version that might refute my argument. If that's your argument, there's no point bringing "the Bible" into any of your arguments.
09 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by joelekFrom the Aramic Bible,
Well, the arguments I've made could come from any version of the Bible I've ever read. I've read from several, though admittedly not all. If you'd care to quote John 1 from some version that doesn't support my arguments, go ahead.
Otherwise, you're just saying that maybe, somewhere, exists some supposed Bible version that might refute my argument. If that's your argument, there's no point bringing "the Bible" into any of your arguments.
John:
1. In the beginning of creation
there was the Manifestation;
And that Manifestation was with God;
and God was the embodiment of that Manifestation.
This could the bible itself. The bible could be a manifestation, it could be with god, and god could be the embodiment of that manifestation.
Perhaps somewhere along the line, someone decided that the word embodiment was too big and dropped it.
But, that still doesn't quell my previous concern regarding the verification of the originality of the content, after which the veracity can be examined.
Edit:
That is to say that, the bible is known to have been edited by the Roman Catholic Church a few times.
The bible's account of hell was not quite so vivid until Dante's Inferno was published.
It's quite Ironic how most of that actually ended up in the bible, given the fact that the author had put the priests at the very depths of hell for hypocrisy.
09 Dec 05
2 edits
Well, I would have thought the the Aramic (I assume you mean Aramaic) Bible would be written in Aramaic, not English. So I'm not sure how you're quoting from it in English.
Furthermore, if you look at my original post, you'll see:
If you don't believe the Bible, then I can't prove to your satisfaction that Jesus is God.
Your argument puts you into this category, and hence I will not try to prove Jesus' deity to you.
[Edited for typos only.]