God's Kingdom-Real?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
He was associated with Christadelphians but he had his own ideas and now he just casts messages in bottles and hopes that the Caribbean carries them to someone 😀

Thanx Bro.

Originally posted by divegeester
You'll find that debating with the JWs is no different from when you were here before: deflection, obfuscation, intellectual dishonesty and plagiarism.

If that were the case, we would just be following your lead. Perish the thought.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

The kingdom of the heavens in the book of Matthew is firstly inward in the disciples - jaywill

Nonsense and unsupported by the original language or the context.

(please dont post a wall of text attempting to substantiate your claim.)

I trust that not everyone reading my posts is lazy and some want to read as much as is needed to see a poster's reasoning.

I asked many times for you to describe something of what it is like to know God.

You never did.
I don't think you even gave a reason why you won't.
So your retorting that the kingdom of the heavens has an inward reality is "nonsense" probably corresponds to the fact that you cannot witness for any subjective experience and enjoyment of God.

One day you may understand the allegory of Ishmael mocking Isaac standing for the experiencers of grace in Christ being mocked by those who only know the fleshiness of human religion.

Originally posted by sonship

Do these qualities describe something in a person's heart or a real government?

The question as it is framed really sets up a false dichotomy.
IE. "real government" verses "something in a person's heart."

The kingdom of the heavens in the book of [b]Matthew is firstly inward in the disciples. It is even hidden yet real. Even ...[text shortened]... of the kingdom of God - its critical inward reality and the reward of its outward manifestation.[/b]

What Scripture in Matthew did you refer to in your post?
The point I was trying to resolve was the nature of the Kingdom.
Many believe it is inward.
The problem with saying the Kingdom is inward is found at: (Luke 17:21) ... For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.”
This is usually the basis for the belief that God's Kingdom is inward.
But, Jesus was talking not to his disciples but to the Pharisees who did not believe in him!
So, that obviously is not a correct understanding of God's Kingdom.
The points I made in the original quote are points that show God's Kingdom to be a real government, i.e. it has power, it has an appointed ruler, it has subjects, it has laws, etc.

Originally posted by roigam

What Scripture in Matthew did you refer to in your post?

Without double checking, I think I referred to the Gospel of John about being born anew in order to see the kingdom of God (John 3:3-8) The matter of birth spiritually is very inward.

But if you want me to relate the inwardness of the kingdom life to Matthew, you should be able to see that in the teaching of Matthew 13:1-23 about the sower sowing the word of the kingdom, the soils there upon which the seed of this word falls represents something very inward - the HEART of man.

Jesus interprets the parable Himself in verses 19-23 - including these words -

When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand, the evil one comes and snatches away that which has been sown IN HIS HEART. This is the one sown beside the way." (v.19)

The other three conditions - the rocky soil, the thorny soil, and the fruitful soil all represent conditions of the heart of man. How can we say the heart of man is not inward?

And since the word is the word of the kingdom, represented as a growing SEED, the strong implication is that the kingdom Jesus speaks of is first something that has to be planted within and grow within the human heart.

So in THIS aspect the kingdom of the heavens is inward. This does not mean that there is no outward government eventually.

And I cannot write more at this time.

Originally posted by sonship

What Scripture in Matthew did you refer to in your post?

Without double checking, I think I referred to the Gospel of John about being born anew in order to see the kingdom of God [b](John 3:3-8) The matter of birth spiritually is very inward.

But if you want me to relate the inwardness of the kingdom life to Matthew, yo ...[text shortened]... mean that there is no outward government eventually.

And I cannot write more at this time.[/b]

Thank you for your clear response.
My understanding is that the seed sown is God's Word of Truth which would include information about God's Kingdom but is not exclusively about the Kingdom.
It would also include knowledge of other truths of God such as indicated at: (John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
These certainly go into our minds and sink down into the heart but they are principles upon which God's Kingdom rule is based. They are not the Kingdom.
The Kingdom itself is a real Kingdom.
It has an appointed ruler, Jesus as King. It has subjects, those who accept the Christ as ruler. It has laws given by Jehovah God Himself.
When this unsuccessful system that is of Satan's devising is destroyed God's Kingdom will rule over all the Earth.
Also, when Jesus said, (Luke 17:21) ....’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.”
he was speaking to the Pharisees not to believers. He was referring to himself as future King of God's Kingdom so he was not saying God's Kingdom was within those unbelievers.
When God's Kingdom rules unopposed, the Earth will become a Paradise as our Creator intended from the beginning.
Then: (Luke 23:43) And he (Jesus) said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”

Originally posted by roigam

Thank you for your clear response.
My understanding is that the seed sown is God's Word of Truth which would include information about God's Kingdom but is not exclusively about the Kingdom.

It is called "the word of the kingdom" -

"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom ..." ((Matt. 13:19)

And I must continue my response latter.

Originally posted by sonship

Thank you for your clear response.
My understanding is that the seed sown is God's Word of Truth which would include information about God's Kingdom but is not exclusively about the Kingdom.

It is called [b]"the word of the kingdom" -

"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom ..." ((Matt. 13:19)

And I must continue my response latter.[/b]

Yes, it does, it does not say the word is the Kingdom.
Of means about. the word is about the Kingdom.
God's Kingdom is a real government in Heaven.
As you know, Jesus said we should pray for that Kingdom to come, for God's will to be done on Earth...
Also, it says regarding that Kingdom, (Daniel 2:44) “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever,

Originally posted by RJHinds
And don't forget repetitive fake amnesia. 😏

It's not amnesia. It's just not replying to posts that have no value little smirky face. Wouldn't you agree that such repilies would be a waste of time?

Originally posted by roigam

Yes, it does, it does not say the word is the Kingdom.

The parable of something as a seed GROWING in man is about the kingdom. That is why Christ in Mark speaks in a similar way of the kingdom of God being in terms of something GROWING.

"And He said, So is the kingdom of God: as if a man cast seed on the earth, And sleeps and rises night and day, and the seed sprouts and lengthens - how, he does not know.

The earth bears fruit by itself: first a blade, then an ear, then full grain in the ear. But when the fruit is ripe, immediately he sends forth the sickle, because the harvest has come." (Mark 4:26-29)

The kingdom of God is therefore related to the growth of life. And this life in implanted into man when man receives Christ.

Yes, it does not specifically say the word is Christ. But Christ said His words are spirit and LIFE -

" ... the words which I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." (John 6:63b)

The unbeliever receives the word of Christ and is regenerated by its incorruptible nature.

"Having been regenerated not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, through the living and abiding word of God ... the word of the Lord abides forever. And this is the word which has been announced to you as the gospel." (See 1 Peter 1:23-25)

The word of Christ is to be received meekly for it is able to save our souls. These are all matters of the kingdom of God.

"Therefore putting away all filthiness and the abundance of malice, receive in meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your soul." (James 1:21)

So the word of the Gospel, the word of Christ certainly causes us to be born again into the kingdom. And as it is able to save our souls by growing once it is implanted we are established in the kingdom.

Go brought the believers forth through the word of truth -

"He brought us forth by the word of truth, purposing that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures." (James 1:18)

roigam:
God's Kingdom is a real government in Heaven.

In Matthew, the phrase "the kingdom of the heavens" means the kingdom, the ORIGIN of which is from heaven. It means the kingdom, the SOURCE of which is in heaven.

roigan:
As you know, Jesus said we should pray for that Kingdom to come, for God's will to be done on Earth...

The kingdom's source and origin are from heaven. And as His life is implanted and grows within a group of people upon the earth, the kingdom is coming.

It comes from two directions. It comes OUT from within those living the kingdom life. And it comes down from without as Christ returns to reward those who have lived by its inward reality.

The kingdom of God is an inward reality. Yet it is coming as a global outward administration too.

So it is no wonder that in its inward reality aspect, Jesus taught about the seed of the word of the kingdom GROWING on different kinds of hearts. The best heart is the one cultivated and tended to.

That heart of the last kind of the four, will yield fruit for the kingdom in this age and reward for the believer when Christ brings the more outward administration to the planet.

"But the one sown on the good earth, this is he who hears the word and understands, who by all means bears fruit and produces, one hundredfold, and one sixtyfold, and one thirtyfold." (Matt. 13:23)