1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    04 Dec '13 06:012 edits
    God's Patience by Caleb Colley, M.L.A.

    "Some people picture God as akin to a miserly dictator Who is eager to find a cause to crush the vile human race He created. Is that the way the Bible portrays God? Romans 2:4 reads: “Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?” Romans 15:5 emphasizes God’s patience: “Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be likeminded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus.” Peter wrote: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15).

    God is patient because He does not want anyone to be eternally lost. “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). One meaning of “patience,” according to the Illustrated Oxford Dictionary, is “the capacity for calm, self-possessed waiting.” God has promised that there will be a day when sinners will receive their final condemnation (2 Peter 2:9; 3:7), but God is waiting in order that more sinners might accept and obey the Gospel. Wayne Jackson noted biblical examples of this patience:

    The Lord’s wrath is not inflicted impulsively. Rather, history repeatedly has demonstrated that God exercises “much long-suffering” toward those deserving of punishment (Romans 9:22). His patience was demonstrated to the generation of Noah’s day (Genesis 6:3). He longed to spare corrupt Sodom (Genesis 18:26ff). Jehovah revealed himself to Moses as a God who is “slow to anger” (Exodus 34:6; cf. Psalms 103:8). The Lord was even long-suffering with a wretch as vile as Ahab (1 Kings 21:29). For centuries He was tolerant with the arrogant and stiff-necked nation of Israel (Nehemiah 9:17).

    We desperately need God’s patience, just as the apostle Paul did. Paul was given the opportunity to be saved, despite the fact that he was “the chief ” of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15-16; see Nicks, 1981, p. 190). Potential for salvation rests in God’s patience. Rather than instantly destroying people when they sin, He providentially gives people opportunities and encouragement that should lead to repentance (Titus 2:11). God expects us to request His continued patience as we make mistakes (1 John 1:9; Luke 11:4), and He shows His patience by continually forgiving us of our sins when we do (based on the sacrifice of Christ’s blood and our sincere obedience to His will; see 1 John 1:7).

    We should emulate the patience of God. Romans 2:6-7 emphasizes the necessity of patience in the lives of Christians: “[God] will render to each one according to his deeds: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality” (emp. added). Paul instructed Christians to be patient: “Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all” (1 Thessalonians 5:14, emp. added; cf. Christ’s parable of the impatient servant in Matthew 18:23-35). Patience also is necessary because other essential Christian virtues, including faith, hope, and joy, are dependent on it (James 1:2-4; Romans 5:3; 15:4; Colossians 1:11; see Nicks, 1981, pp. 191-192). William Barclay observed:

    If God had been a man, He would have taken His hand and wiped out this world long ago; but God has that patience which bears with all our sinning and which will not cast us off. In our lives, in our attitude to and dealings with our fellow men, we must reproduce this loving, forbearing, forgiving, patient attitude of God toward ourselves (1958, p. 56).

    God’s patience is balanced by His perfect justice. Unforgiven sin will be punished, but God’s patience allows time for repentance (Matthew 25:41; 2 Peter 2:9; see Colley, 2004). Isaiah 30:18 makes it clear: “Therefore the Lord will wait, that He may be gracious to you; and therefore He will be exalted that He may have mercy on you. For the Lord is God of justice; blessed are those who wait for Him.” God’s generous patience should motivate us to obey Him."

    http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=12&article=1395

    Footnote: In reply to wolfgang59's question in JS357's "Drange's argument from nonbelief". Thread 156745 (Page 1)
  2. Donationrwingett
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    04 Dec '13 11:15
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]God's Patience by Caleb Colley, M.L.A.

    "Some people picture God as akin to a miserly dictator Who is eager to find a cause to crush the vile human race He created. Is that the way the Bible portrays God? Romans 2:4 reads: “Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God ...[text shortened]... 9's question in JS357's "Drange's argument from nonbelief". Thread 156745 (Page 1)[/b]
    How patient was god during the Great Flood?
  3. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Dec '13 01:552 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    How patient was god during the Great Flood?
    Originally posted by rwingett
    "How patient was god during the Great Flood?"

    The Days of Noah "The fallen angels are a group of angels that fell from grace when they decided to leave the heavenly habitation and tried to interrupt or destroy God’s plan for this earth age. Some would have you believe that these "sons of God" in Genesis 6 were the sons of Seth. The Word does not support that view. We will study this topic and determine what God’s word says about it. Turn to Matthew 24 where Christ speaks of Noah’s flood."

    Matt 24:38 "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark..." Do you know who they were marrying and giving in marriage to? It was the fallen angels or Nephilim. Matt 24:39 "And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. The flood of these end times are the flood of lies Satan will pour from his mouth when he appears as false messiah." (Rev. 12:15). Many shall be deceived by him. Now, let’s cover the afore mentioned events back in Genesis 6. Here we will discover just exactly what occurred before the flood of Noah."

    Gen 6:1-2 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." These "sons of God" were not flesh men. These were angelic beings. The phrase "sons of God" in every occurrence in the Old Testament can only mean angels and should not be taken in any other sense. This was an attempt by Satan to corrupt the lineage through which Christ would come.

    Gen 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." The word "giants" comes from the Hebrew prime "napha" which means to fall. Hence Nephilim, meaning "the fallen ones" or fallen angels. These Nephilim cohabitated with the daughters of Adam. Their offspring were gibbor and were known for their ungodliness. I would like to touch on few more verses.

    Gen 6:8-9 "8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."The word "perfect" in verse 9 is the Hebrew word tamiym (taw-meem&lsquo😉 and is a technical word for animal sacrifices. It means without blemish. Not in a moral sense but ancestral or pedigree sense of the word. Meaning Noah and his family did not mix with these Nehpilim. That is why Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. The flood came about to destroy the Nephilim’s offspring. They were an abomination and against God’s plan." Written by Phil Najera http://www.theseason.org/thetrueshepherd/study5text.htm

    Note: rwingett, God's Patience functions within the Justice and Righteousness (Integrity) Parameters of His Divine Plan.
  4. Donationrwingett
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    05 Dec '13 02:30
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by rwingett
    "How patient was god during the Great Flood?"

    [b]The Days of Noah
    "The fallen angels are a group of angels that fell from grace when they decided to leave the heavenly habitation and tried to interrupt or destroy God’s plan for this earth age. Some would have you believe that these "sons of God" in Genesis 6 ...[text shortened]... tience functions within the Justice and Righteousness (Integrity) Parameters of His Divine Plan.[/b]
    I hope you didn't spend a lot of time typing out those five paragraphs of scriptural hogwash, because I didn't bother reading them. But no matter how many hoops you jump through, you can never reconcile genocide with patience, justice, or anything remotely resembling omnibenevolence.
  5. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Dec '13 02:31
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I hope you didn't spend a lot of time typing out those five paragraphs of scriptural hogwash, because I didn't bother reading them. But no matter how many hoops you jump through, you can never reconcile genocide with patience, justice, or anything remotely resembling omnibenevolence.
    Thanks for your comments.
  6. Standard memberSoothfast
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    05 Dec '13 03:19
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by rwingett
    "How patient was god during the Great Flood?"

    [b]The Days of Noah
    "The fallen angels are a group of angels that fell from grace when they decided to leave the heavenly habitation and tried to interrupt or destroy God’s plan for this earth age. Some would have you believe that these "sons of God" in Genesis 6 ...[text shortened]... tience functions within the Justice and Righteousness (Integrity) Parameters of His Divine Plan.[/b]
    Where's the part where Morgoth makes off with the Silmarils?
  7. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Dec '13 03:41
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    Where's the part where Morgoth makes off with the Silmarils?
    Dunno. Maybe Tolkien edited the scene.
  8. Standard memberRemoved
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    05 Dec '13 15:37
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by rwingett
    "How patient was god during the Great Flood?"

    [b]The Days of Noah
    "The fallen angels are a group of angels that fell from grace when they decided to leave the heavenly habitation and tried to interrupt or destroy God’s plan for this earth age. Some would have you believe that these "sons of God" in Genesis 6 ...[text shortened]... tience functions within the Justice and Righteousness (Integrity) Parameters of His Divine Plan.[/b]
    Well done GB, I have written about this here many times before. It is why God commanded Joshua and many others to utterly destroy these people. They could not be "rehabilitated", they were continually evil all the time.
    And you are absolutely correct, Satan had tried to stop the prophecy of Genesis 3:15 any way he could.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    05 Dec '13 17:071 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Well done GB, I have written about this here many times before. It is why God commanded Joshua and many others to utterly destroy these people. They could not be "rehabilitated", they were continually evil all the time.
    And you are absolutely correct, Satan had tried to stop the prophecy of Genesis 3:15 any way he could.
    I concur. And in the days before the Savior came, there was no other sacrifice to be given for sin, except the elimination of the sinful.*

    So 'genocide' is a harsh word. More like the elimination of sin.**






    * While there were animal sacrifices, these were not entirely effective, nor were they codified before Moses.

    ** Certainly, only certain sins. All sin was only removed by the redeeming sacrifice of the Savior.
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    05 Dec '13 17:11
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I hope you didn't spend a lot of time typing out those five paragraphs of scriptural hogwash, because I didn't bother reading them. But no matter how many hoops you jump through, you can never reconcile genocide with patience, justice, or anything remotely resembling omnibenevolence.
    I did. Good job, Bob.

    The patience of God before the flood lasted for generations. He acted when it became obvious that He couldn't wait any longer, or otherwise the genetic line to David (and thus to Jesus) would have become corrupted.
  11. Standard memberSoothfast
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    05 Dec '13 17:47
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    ...God commanded Joshua and many others to utterly destroy these people. They could not be "rehabilitated",...
    Ah, so there are some things the Almighty cannot do, after all...
  12. Standard memberRemoved
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    05 Dec '13 18:00
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    Ah, so there are some things the Almighty cannot do, after all...
    There are many things God cannot do. He cannot lie. He cannot go against his own word.
  13. Standard memberRemoved
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    05 Dec '13 18:04
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I concur. And in the days before the Savior came, there was no other sacrifice to be given for sin, except the elimination of the sinful.*

    So 'genocide' is a harsh word. More like the elimination of sin.**






    * While there were animal sacrifices, these were not entirely effective, nor were they codified before Moses.

    ** Certainly, only certain sins. All sin was only removed by the redeeming sacrifice of the Savior.

    So 'genocide' is a harsh word. More like the elimination of sin.**

    Exactly...like a doctor removing the infected part, to protect the rest of the human race.
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    05 Dec '13 19:07
    Originally posted by checkbaiter

    So 'genocide' is a harsh word. More like the elimination of sin.**

    Exactly...like a doctor removing the infected part, to protect the rest of the human race.
    After that same doctor had knowingly infected a part of the population.
  15. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    05 Dec '13 19:252 edits
    Originally posted by checkbaiter

    So 'genocide' is a harsh word. More like the elimination of sin.**

    Exactly...like a doctor removing the infected part, to protect the rest of the human race.
    And if you kill every single innocent animal besides those on the ark, and every infant outside the ark that has no concept of right or wrong, well, hey, that's just acceptable collateral damage.

    After all, we're not dealing with an omnipotent being who could just zap all the bad people and kill them. He's fully justified in using the sledge hammer when he has a drawer full of scalpels.
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