Originally posted by @suzianne Oh, Lord, can anyone now see what I am up against here? Someone please tell this person that Calvinism is not "American jargon". I find it troubling that not only doesn't he know what it is, he's not even interested in knowing what it is. It's like not knowing who Martin Luther was, or not knowing who John Wesley was, or not knowing the difference betw ...[text shortened]... and for no reason other than their own ego fulfillment. And that's not exactly following Jesus.
A jackass in my book would be the Christian woman who did not read Psalms and Proverbs π Further proof [although none is required] that you one is the fact that you dont know what sonship says around here. OSAS for him is that ALL Christians however evil and sinful are saved eternally .. ALL.. none are lost.
Your personal terminology of different types of Christian doctrines is irrelevant to these discussions.
Originally posted by @rajk999 A jackass in my book would be the Christian woman who did not read Psalms and Proverbs π Further proof [although none is required] that you one is the fact that you dont know what sonship says around here. OSAS for him is that ALL Christians however evil and sinful are saved eternally .. ALL.. none are lost.
Your personal terminology of different types of Christian doctrines is irrelevant to these discussions.
So, you're the only one whose opinion matters... of COURSE you are.
And for the last time, it's NOT "my" terminology. For God's sake, crack open a book once in a while.
And btw, I'm not responsible, like you apparently think I am, for anyone's opinion here but my own. But I sure as hell am not going to treat another Christian in this forum that disagrees with me like a piece of garbage just for disagreeing with me!
Originally posted by @suzianne Oh, Lord, can anyone now see what I am up against here? Someone please tell this person that Calvinism is not "American jargon". I find it troubling that not only doesn't he know what it is, he's not even interested in knowing what it is. It's like not knowing who Martin Luther was, or not knowing who John Wesley was, or not knowing the difference betw ...[text shortened]... and for no reason other than their own ego fulfillment. And that's not exactly following Jesus.
Originally posted by @suzianne So, you're the only one whose opinion matters... of COURSE you are.
And for the last time, it's NOT "my" terminology. For God's sake, crack open a book once in a while.
And btw, I'm not responsible, like you apparently think I am, for anyone's opinion here but my own. But I sure as hell am not going to treat another Christian in this forum that disagrees with me like a piece of garbage just for disagreeing with me!
Terminology in the Bible is what Im interested in.
Terminology coined by man is what you believe in and continually speak of.
Your failure to read important books like Psalms and Proverbs says a lot about the kind of ignorant woman that you are.
You are not responsible for what sonship says ABOUT osas, , but you continually MISREPRESENT WHAT HE SAYS.
Originally posted by @suzianne I confess that I am not familiar with this scripture. Proverbs and Psalms both I have read the least of all scripture. This does seem quite celebratory to women.
I apologize for thinking that you were talking about the other passage.
Thank you for sharing this with me.
No need to apologise, but thanks anyway. I'm generally a book you seem to judge by the cover anyway, so to speak. π
Originally posted by @eladar Why would some cry out to Jesus Lord, Lord if they did not believe they were saved?
Where in the Bible does it say that if we believe we are saved, that we are saved?
If you are referring to those that gave Jesus their list of good works, they were trusting in their efforts not Jesus. You think everyone who spouts off those words are saved?
There are people here who admit that they used to call themselves Christian who no longer believe God is real. Do you think think anyone who has been filled with God's Spirit would say that?
If you have God in your life you would have no doubt, if your hoping it is going to work out for you, I would start praying till you're sure.
Originally posted by @kellyjay If you are referring to those that gave Jesus their list of good works, they were trusting in their efforts not Jesus. You think everyone who spouts off those words are saved?
There are people here who admit that they used to call themselves Christian who no longer believe God is real. Do you think think anyone who has been filled with God's Spirit wou ...[text shortened]... o doubt, if your hoping it is going to work out for you, I would start praying till you're sure.
Do you think that anyone who has God's spirit would tell others living a sinful lifestyle is acceptable before the Lord?
Originally posted by @eladar Do you think that anyone who has God's spirit would tell others living a sinful lifestyle is acceptable before the Lord?
Sin is never acceptable before God, and the closer you get to God the less sin will be
acceptable to you.
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03 Aug '17 14:01
Originally posted by @whodey What? No mention of the virtuous women supporting abortion on demand?
They must have a bad translation Suzy.
Don't listen to them.
I don't think Proverbs 31 is speaking of a human woman in the literal sense...
We see that Proverbs 31 is portraying an ideal wife in the sense that an ideal wife (and the ideal woman) should strive to be as much like the woman in Proverbs 31 as her circumstances and culture allow. Nevertheless, there are problems with trying to make all of Proverbs 31:10-31 fit with a literal “wise wife.” As Roland Murphy writes, “Who could achieve in many lifetimes what she achieves in these verses” (Word Biblical Commentary). Furthermore, there are several things mentioned in Proverbs 31 that would not be “ideal” for a woman in the biblical culture. These include going out into the world and trading (Prov. 31:11); buying and selling land (Prov. 31:16), and tying her clothes up around her waist (Prov. 31:17).
Thus, we see how and why Proverbs 31 is portraying Wisdom as a wife, and that the lessons in the section generally apply to both men and women. In the same way that the Hebrew text of Proverbs 1:4 is specifically addressed to the “young man,” but many versions read “youth” or “young person” because the lessons apply to women also, in Proverbs 31 the ideal wife is an embodiment of wisdom and the lessons apply to both men and women.
Wisdom and Folly are personified as women throughout Proverbs, and the personification is designed to make a point and also to make the text easy to understand. When Lady Wisdom calls out to the naïve men and invites them to come to her house and eat her food and live (Prov. 9:1-6), and the adulteress Lady Folly calls out to the naïve men and invites them to come to her house and eat secret bread and drink stolen waters, that is, have sex (Prov. 9:13-18), we are not to assume that all wise and foolish people are women and all naïve people are men. These are personifications and general portraits that allow us to see wisdom and folly in action, and show us the value in being wise rather than foolish. Nevertheless, in Proverbs 9, as in Proverbs 31, we do see that there is also a “real” aspect to the personification. The reason the personification and story in Proverbs 9 works so well is that there are a lot of naïve and foolish young men who will ignore the invitation of Wisdom and go visit a prostitute or an adulteress who is boisterous, pushy, glamorous, and offers sex.
Another piece of evidence that supports the position that the wife in Proverbs 31 is a continuation of the personification of Wisdom throughout Proverbs, a piece of evidence that is not mentioned by a large number of commentators, is that there is a very strong connection between what the wife in Proverbs 31 does and what Wisdom does earlier in Proverbs. For example, the wife is worth more than gems (Prov. 31:10), and Wisdom is worth more than gems (Prov. 3:15; 8:11). The wife does her husband good and not evil (Prov. 31:12), while Wisdom helps us find a good way of life (Prov. 2:9-10) and hates evil (Prov. 8:12-13). The wife profits the household and is like the “ships of a merchant,” while Wisdom also brings in profit (Prov. 3:14). The wife gets food and provides it for her household (Prov. 31:14-15), while Wisdom also procures and provides food (Prov. 9:1-2). The wife has jobs for her female servants (Prov. 31:15), and Wisdom has jobs for her female servants (Prov. 9:3). The wife deals well and has “fruit” (profit) from her labor (Prov. 31:16), while Wisdom has “fruit” that is better than gold (Prov. 8:19). The wife girds herself with strength (Prov. 31:17), while a wise person has strength (Prov. 24:5). The wife perceives her “gain” (profit from trading) is good (Prov. 31:18), and Wisdom’s gain is better than silver (Prov. 3:14). The wife laughs at the future, revealing her playful nature (Prov. 31:25), while Wisdom laughed and played when God was making the earth (Prov. 8:30-31). The wife watches over her household (Prov. 31:27) just as Wisdom and her female attendants watch and guard us (Prov. 2:10-11). Given all that, we can see why T. McCreesh concludes, “chapter 31 is the book’s final masterful portrait of Wisdom” (quoted in R. Murphy, Word Biblical Commentary, p. 246).
Another thing that is worth noting in comparing the wife in Proverbs 31 to Wisdom is that there is a pun about “wisdom” in the Hebrew text of Proverbs 31:27. The Hebrew says, “she keeps watch” but the exact Hebrew word is tsophia (Χ¦ΧΦΉΧ€Φ΄ΧΦΌΦΈΧ), a form of the verb that occurs only here in the entire Hebrew Bible and that is pronounced almost exactly like sophia, the Greek word for “wisdom.” Sometimes language puns happen accidentally, and that cannot be completly ruled out here, nevertheless, the fact that this Hebrew verb occurs only here in the entire Bible, combined with the fact that all of Proverbs has been about wisdom and this is the closing section of the book of Proverbs, is quite good evidence that this was not an accident but a divinely constructed pun. So the verse clearly seems to have a sort of “hidden meaning” along with the more obvious meaning, one that says, “‘wisdom’ is the way of her household.” It makes sense that the way of Wisdom’s household would be wisdom.
We conclude that Proverbs 31:10-31 is a portrait of Lady Wisdom, as embodied in a strong woman. Women can and should try to emulate Wisdom, and men can learn from her as well.
Originally posted by @kellyjay Sin is never acceptable before God, and the closer you get to God the less sin will be
acceptable to you.
You didn't answer my question. You spoke of actions inconsistent with having the holy spirit. Notice I am not saying live without a sin, just recognituon of what is acceptable and what is not.
Originally posted by @kellyjay If you are referring to those that gave Jesus their list of good works, they were trusting in their efforts not Jesus. You think everyone who spouts off those words are saved?
There are people here who admit that they used to call themselves Christian who no longer believe God is real. Do you think think anyone who has been filled with God's Spirit wou ...[text shortened]... o doubt, if your hoping it is going to work out for you, I would start praying till you're sure.
But wait, they believed they were saved. Would you have called these people brothers?
02 Aug '17 12:51
God's sovereign election
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