Originally posted by Palynka But therein lies the flaw of your reasoning. Since the universe is not a conscious entity then it also follows that it's absence of perspective on good and evil is not a good determinant whether good and evil are purely human constructs.
I think you've misunderstood what I meant by the perspective of the universe. All I meant is to take a wider view, or to take in the bigger picture so to speak. Not what the universe might think about something.
Originally posted by Beltaine I think you've misunderstood what I meant by the perspective of the universe. All I meant is to take a wider view, or to take in the bigger picture so to speak. Not what the universe might think about something.
You still need a referent or the "bigger picture" is unidentified. If the only referent you have is man, or at most, mankind then the perspective of mankind is the bigger picture.
Originally posted by Palynka You still need a referent or the "bigger picture" is unidentified. If the only referent you have is man, or at most, mankind then the perspective of mankind [b]is the bigger picture.[/b]
Originally posted by Beltaine Because the universe doesn't care if humans live or die, or a rock if it gets broken in two. Human beings superimpose their artificial judgements on what happens in the world, when in actual fact nothing ultimately matters. To say that good and evil exist outside of human beings (the universal perspective, given our insignificance) would require rocks to ha ...[text shortened]... e thoughts and feelings and for them to care about what happened to themselves and other rocks.
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Human beings superimpose their artificial judgements on what happens in the world,
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Wouldn't that mean that you also are superimposing your artificial judgments on what happens also?
You say humans concoct "good" and "evil" according to which will help them survive. According to your own logic isn't that your artificial construct superimposed on what happens?
Originally posted by Rajk999 Well you must then mean that the universe (excluding our planet) is void of any consciousness or any sense of order. So again, how do you know this?
I know it in the same way I know there's no chocolate teapot in orbit around Pluto - not impossible, but unlikely enough so that it can be ruled out completely.
Originally posted by jaywill [b]===============================
Human beings superimpose their artificial judgements on what happens in the world,
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Wouldn't that mean that you also are superimposing your artificial judgments on what happens also?
You say humans concoct "good" and "evil" according to which will help them survive. Acc ...[text shortened]... rding to your own logic isn't that your artificial construct superimposed on what happens?[/b]
Well, I'm human, so I can be expected to superimpose my own artificialy constructed concepts on the world, however, in the context of this debate I don't think I've made any judgements concerning what is good or evil.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Well you must then mean that the universe (excluding our planet) is void of any consciousness or any sense of order. So again, how do you know this?
No, it's void of any sentient life when you're around.
Originally posted by Beltaine Good and evil do not exist from the perspective of the universe as a whole, but are instead artificial constructs of the human mind based on how things affect our ability to survive as a species.
What does everyone else think?
Even if you can make sense of "the perspective of the universe" (and you might want to see Nagel's "The View from Nowhere" about this), why would ethics as a human construction be artificial? Why would it be any less important for being a construct?
08 Aug '08 17:50
Good and evil
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