09 Aug 09
Originally posted by generalissimoIt might be "just fun and not taken seriously" as you say, but that doesn't make it any more respectable.
[b]Why in the world would anyone that says they worship God and love what he loves and hates what he hates would want to have anything to do with some pagan holiday
er...because its just fun and not really taken seriously?
pagan holiday
the christmas tree is originally a pagan tradition, does that mean we should get rid of it? no.[/b]
I mean animal sacifices are pagan by nature, i don't think our lord jesus would approve of the sacrifice of a horse as early as move 4.
So the safest course should be to refuse this ungodly sacrifice, after all getting easy equality with black can't be bad.
good christians should definitely prefer the st-georges attack (vs the dragon)
09 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIsaiah 9:6 (New American Standard Bible)
piece of nonsense, there is no, and i repeat no valid reason as to why it should be translated to read as the word was God, as in God Almighty
if you can point to one, just one Biblical reference where Christ is alluded to as Almighty God then i for one shall be personally grateful, but as you and i are aware there is no such reference, therefore ...[text shortened]... shall explain on what authority that you have thought to translate it as God as in the Almighty.
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
This passage speaks of the Messiah to come Who is? Jesus. These are also terms that are used of God almighty. Either we have a problem here because God almighty does not share glory or Jesus is one in the same as Almighty God.
John 10:28-38 (New American Standard Bible)
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30"I and the Father are one."
31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."
That just two bits of scripture. If Christ is just God's great servant how do you explain all that He did? Healed the sick. Forgave sins. Had omniscience because Jesus knew thoughts. Raised the dead. I think you are sadly mistaken on who Christ is. There are so many more scriptures just like this.
Manny
09 Aug 09
Trying to explain the trinity is not easy. God says He is one yet reveals Himself as 3 distinct persons. It's a paradox I guess. Trying to comprehend God's very nature our fleshly minds try to bend it to what we think seems logical. Jesus is due worship. The Father is due worship. The Spirit is due worship. Yet God is one. The bible does not use the word trinity but God reveals a triune quality about himself. Even in Genesis 1:26 God says let US make man in Our image. Plurals of majesty!!
Manny
09 Aug 09
3 edits
Originally posted by menace71You Bad ol putty cats!, there is one term for God almighty, and one term only, it is a Hebrew verb, El Shaddai.
Isaiah 9:6 (New American Standard Bible)
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
This passage speaks of the Messiah to come Who is? Jesus. These are also te n who Christ is. There are so many more scriptures just like this.
Manny
In the Hebrew text Shaddai is used seven times along with El (God), forming the title “God Almighty.” (Ge 17:1; 28:3; 35:11; 43:14; 48:3; Ex 6:3; Eze 10:5) In the other 41 occurrences it stands alone and is translated the Almighty or the Almighty One. Similar to Adhonai (Sovereign Lord) and Elohim (God), Shaddai is in the plural to denote excellence.—Ge 49:25; Nu 24:4; Ps 68:14.
what is the term used at Isaiah Chapter 9 verse 6?
In the prophecy at Isaiah 9:6 concerning the Messiah, the title “Mighty God” is applied to the promised Prince of Peace. This expression, however, translates the Hebrew El Gibbohr, NOT El Shaddai and is used exclusively with reference to the Christ.
get that Manny, he is termed a mighty God, not the almighty as you have erroneously attempted to assert and as the Hebrew verbs clearly indicate, and try as you will, you will find no reference, no not even one iota which states that Christ is God Almighty.
09 Aug 09
Originally posted by menace71no its a piece of dogma apparently unknown to either Christ or Paul, i mean, you think that they might have at least made mention of it, somewhere, even if it was, like you know, whispered out the corners of their mouth, but no, not one iota! it is clearly of pre Christian origin and is just one more instance of the adoption of pagan ideas which have been handed down in tradition, through the ages, which you people seem so fond of. Why you cannot accept this, is at this point in time, quite beyond me.
Trying to explain the trinity is not easy. God says He is one yet reveals Himself as 3 distinct persons. It's a paradox I guess. Trying to comprehend God's very nature our fleshly minds try to bend it to what we think seems logical. Jesus is due worship. The Father is due worship. The Spirit is due worship. Yet God is one. The bible does not use the word tr ...[text shortened]... Even in Genesis 1:26 God says let US make man in Our image. Plurals of majesty!!
Manny
09 Aug 09
Originally posted by menace71think what you like, there were others who also performed miracles, are we also to assume that these were also God, no, well what are you talking about! get a grip, what is it about Christ being subservient to God, in every way that you do not understand?
Isaiah 9:6 (New American Standard Bible)
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
This passage speaks of the Messiah to come Who is? Jesus. These are also te ...[text shortened]... n who Christ is. There are so many more scriptures just like this.
Manny
i do nothing of my own initiative
gave no consideration to the seizure that he should be equal to God
not my will, but the will of the father
my God and your God
any of this ringing any bells?
09 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieinteresting Robbie, much like most of your theology, you twist it to fit your preconcieved idea. El from strong's concordance means God, or the great God Jehovah. Like in many instances in God's word the second word is a descriptor of a trait of God. Isaiah 9 is clearly talking about Jesus, and clearly stating that he is the great God Jehovah
You Bad ol putty cats!, there is one term for God almighty, and one term only, it is a Hebrew verb, El Shaddai.
In the Hebrew text Shaddai is used seven times along with El (God), forming the title “God Almighty.” (Ge 17:1; 28:3; 35:11; 43:14; 48:3; Ex 6:3; Eze 10:5) In the other 41 occurrences it stands alone and is translated the Almighty or th ...[text shortened]... will, you will find no reference, no not even one iota which states that Christ is God Almighty.
09 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerSo Isaiah and Paul contradict one another.
interesting Robbie, much like most of your theology, you twist it to fit your preconcieved idea. El from strong's concordance means God, or the great God Jehovah. Like in many instances in God's word the second word is a descriptor of a trait of God. Isaiah 9 is clearly talking about Jesus, and clearly stating that he is the great God Jehovah
The head of Christ is God. That means Christ and God are not equals, and they are not one and the same:
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
09 Aug 09
6 edits
Originally posted by duecerwhat is it about the difference between Mighty God and Almighty God that you do not understand? what is it about the Hebrew verbs that you do not understand Deucer, why do you not see the difference, it is truly incredulous, i did not write the Hebrew verse, did I, they are not my words are they? they were penned by the prophet Isaiah, when the difference is pointed out to you, you cannot handle it and resort to the usual nonsense of unsubstantiated claims of erroneous theology.
interesting Robbie, much like most of your theology, you twist it to fit your preconcieved idea. El from strong's concordance means God, or the great God Jehovah. Like in many instances in God's word the second word is a descriptor of a trait of God. Isaiah 9 is clearly talking about Jesus, and clearly stating that he is the great God Jehovah
What I have stated is what the verse actually says, not what i think it says, it is accurate and true but your whole stance is reminiscent of those that when it is demonstrated to them, they provide no evidence, yes that is correct, no evidence to the contrary, absolutely zilch!!! and perhaps best illustrates the unreasonableness of those who wish to perpetuate this myth. it does NOT say almighty God, get it, It does not read, Almighty God, it reads mighty God, the words are different.
note how unreasonable you stance is,
Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is El, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” (Ge 14:18)It is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. It is also used extensively in the makeup of proper names, such as Elisha (meaning “God Is Salvation&rdquo😉 and Michael (“Who Is Like God?&rdquo😉. In some places El appears with the definite article (ha El, literally, “the God&rdquo😉 with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.—Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31;
get that Deaucer, it is used with reference to God, Jehovah, to other Gods (cannanite etc) and in the proper names of men, your assertion that is exclusively used with reference to Christ , miraculously making him the same Almighty God is nonsense, absolute utter and complete unadulterated super hyper nonsense! perhaps you can show, one instance where Jehovah is termed mighty God, instead of almighty, or the converse, that Christ is termed Almighty God, guess what, i wont be holding my breath! or one instance where the divine name, the tetragrammaton (JHWH) is used with reference to Christ, haha, it is to laugh!
09 Aug 09
Originally posted by shorbockyou can't compare dressing up to animal sacrifice.
It might be "just fun and not taken seriously" as you say, but that doesn't make it any more respectable.
I mean animal sacifices are pagan by nature, i don't think our lord jesus would approve of the sacrifice of a horse as early as move 4.
So the safest course should be to refuse this ungodly sacrifice, after all getting easy equality with black can't be bad.
good christians should definitely prefer the st-georges attack (vs the dragon)
both are pagan traditions yes, but dressing up harms nobody, unlike animal sacrifice.
09 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieGod has many names, Jehovah and Jesus among them, that is the part YOU don't understand. The "el" you are refering to is number 410 in Strongs concordance, it is found there and thousands of other places in the old testament, the author is most assuredly speaking about God, and Jesus at the same time. The qualifier afterwards is a common literary device ascribing traits to the divine, i.e. Lord of Hosts, counselor, wonderful, bla bla bla.
what is it about the difference between Mighty God and Almighty God that you do not understand? what is it about the Hebrew verbs that you do not understand Deucer, why do you not see the difference, it is truly incredulous, i did not write the Hebrew verse, did I, they are not my words are they? they were penned by the prophet Isaiah, when the dif ...[text shortened]... e divine name, the tetragrammaton (JHWH) is used with reference to Christ, haha, it is to laugh!
Twist it anyway you will, the truth is still there for those who wish to see it
09 Aug 09
4 edits
Originally posted by duecerthe God of the Bible has one name, and is represented by the four corresponding characters of the Hebrew alphabet JHWH, or YHWH, the term for this is the tetragrammaton, the vowel pronunciation being lost over time, perhaps due to the Hebrew practise of not pronouncing the divine name less they use it in vain.
God has many names, Jehovah and Jesus among them, that is the part [b]YOU don't understand. The "el" you are refering to is number 410 in Strongs concordance, it is found there and thousands of other places in the old testament, the author is most assuredly speaking about God, and Jesus at the same time. The qualifier afterwards is a common literary devic ...[text shortened]... la bla bla.
Twist it anyway you will, the truth is still there for those who wish to see it[/b]
the rest of the references which utilise El are titles not a proper name! just as God is not a proper name, but a title or in some instances a quality.
get real deucer, for the level of a pastor or a church elder or whatever position you hold, your level of biblical knowledge is scant, and it is not surprising, for the church cannot even differentiate between the name Jehovah and the name Jesus, nor God Almighty and Christ the son. please note i do not think any less of you because of this, i myself was a member of the church of Scotland for almost all my adolescent life and learned absolutely zilch.
i did not put the divine name in scripture, i did not twist anything, did i once again go back in my time machine and write in Jehovah, i don't think so considering it is there almost 7,000 times, and is used for none, not Christ, not anyone, but the Almighty himself. i would repeat this point, but i don't think if it fell from the sky rapped in a diamond studded fifty thousand pound note that you would take notice of it
it is self evident that your attempts to impute some other motive are futile and laughable and you fully deserve to be mocked for the ill will and ignorance that you have displayed in this regard. you really need a bible study like all get out! i am afraid the pointy hat that you dawn in church may somehow prevent you from taking advantage of this generous provision however, i will not hold my breath.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobiethe 2 most used references are El and elohiym. El is the moniker for God, and what ever descriptor used for God follows. my point stands. your anger is a result of your frustration in not being able to disprove my argument.
[b]
the rest of the references which utilise El are titles not a proper name! just as God is not a proper name, but a title or in some instances a quality.
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10 Aug 09
Originally posted by generalissimoAnimal sacrifice was a component of many ancient religions not just pagan as you can see in the Old Testament.
you can't compare dressing up to animal sacrifice.
both are pagan traditions yes, but dressing up harms nobody, unlike animal sacrifice.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieit didn't stop russell who neither read, wrote or in any way understood greek from changing the tanslation of John 1:1 to fit his preconcieved theology.
you just cant remove whole sections of scripture to fit your dogma, but hey, it never stopped the translators of the NIV.