18 Mar 10
Originally posted by rwingettYeah, I'd like to go there. Sounds nice.
Norway is the best country in the world. And I've never been there.
What I don't get is this desire to demonstrate that one place or other - one country or other - is the best in the world. I know there's an almost innate sense of competition in humans, but do we really have to go this far.
Is it not possible to recognise that while the place you live might be nice there are plenty of other nice places too?
19 Mar 10
Originally posted by amannionI personally know only one US fundamentalist Christian who is also right leaning. In his case, it has to do with the fact that he essentially believes anything his Church elders tell him (and they are right leaning). This applies both to Christianity and politics.
Joe, can you explain to me why it is that so many fundamentalist or born-again or god fearing Christians, in the US, have right leaning and often extreme right leaning political views.
Just after the last election I asked him why he didn't vote for Obama. First off he started with the whole "I heard he was Muslim" story, and when we had disused that a bit he made what I found to be the weirdest comment: "Once you are a Conservative you cant change party - thats how it works!" Essentially he said he has to vote conservative whether or not he likes his parties candidate or politics.
I pointed out that the fact that a different party won this time implied that some people did change party, but he had no response to that.
My conclusion is that the type of person who is easy prey for fundamentalist Christian Churches is also the type of person who is easy prey for fundamentalist right wing political parties. And for the same reason other things such as racism etc is also more common amongst such groups. People who rely more heavily on the word of 'authority' than on their own intellect tend to be less open minded.
19 Mar 10
Originally posted by josephwExcessive borrowing without a plan to pay back is usually a recipe for disaster. But the real problem is nobody seems to want to pay tax, so they would rather borrow to run the government than pay for it. But this is a whole separate issue from what the government should do.
This is a spirituality forum. I don't make excuses.
If we run up the debt we're all going to be poor.
19 Mar 10
Originally posted by amannionBut you have a plan to pay back the loan over time (I hope). The people who thought they could live forever by borrowing more to pay back their last loan are the ones who suffered the most in the last crash.
I took out a loan to buy my house. Didn't make me poor. In fact, now I have a house. I would say I'm richer for that.
If you don't have a steady income that will exceed your expenses in the future, then it is foolish to borrow.
When you buy a house, you are taking a single large once off loan which you will pay back. A government that is paying for healthcare cannot possibly hope to only pay for it one year then start paying off the loan, it is a continuous expense.
You would hopefully not take out a loan to pay rent on a house, its simply not sustainable.
20 Mar 10
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Originally posted by epiphinehas"Do you know what percentage of America is owned by the government? Less than 1%."
[b]At what cost? The loss of freedom and liberty.
Have you counted the cost of not ensuring the well-being of everyone? Ironically, the American government spends way more on health care per capita than most other countries. No system is perfect, but I guarantee we could spend less than we do now and insure everybody with a sensible overhaul to I will be amazed if we survive the coming catastrophe.[/b]
Are you referring to Peak Oil?[/b]
Did you know that the federal government owns over half the land in this country.
http://www.johncletheroe.org/usa_can/gov_land/index.htm
20 Mar 10
Originally posted by josephwYou guys really have a srewed up view of your government don't you?
[b]"Do you know what percentage of America is owned by the government? Less than 1%."
Did you know that the federal government owns over half the land in this country.
http://www.johncletheroe.org/usa_can/gov_land/index.htm[/b]
Our Commonwealth and State governments here in Australia own much of the land too, but this is not seen in the same way. We call it Public land because the government owns it for us - it's our land, Australian land. And the government is us - elected by us, staffed by us, controlled by us every 3 or 4 years at the next election.
Government is not some alien, foreign entity we have to fight against. Government is us.
22 Mar 10
Originally posted by amannion"Government is us."
You guys really have a srewed up view of your government don't you?
Our Commonwealth and State governments here in Australia own much of the land too, but this is not seen in the same way. We call it Public land because the government owns it for us - it's our land, Australian land. And the government is us - elected by us, staffed by us, controlled by us ...[text shortened]... ion.
Government is not some alien, foreign entity we have to fight against. Government is us.
Ya, it used to be that way here, but as of 11pm this evening we now have unique group of elitist, 219 to be exact, who don't think so.
22 Mar 10
Originally posted by josephwBut you - or their constituents - voted them in. You can't blame them for doing what they were voted in saying they were going to do. I don't recall seeing that House members were appointed - they're voted for, every two years. Can'tthey do what they're voted in to do?
[b]"Government is us."
Ya, it used to be that way here, but as of 11pm this evening we now have unique group of elitist, 219 to be exact, who don't think so.[/b]
It'snot as if their constituents didn't know they were proposing major health care reform. Now if you voted for the other guy, well bad luck. That's democracy - wait two years (or until November as the case may be) and vote again.
23 Mar 10
Originally posted by josephwAt what cost you ask?
[b]"To me it's an obvious moral imperative for a society to ensure the well-being of its people,.."
At what cost? The loss of freedom and liberty. The current health care plan being crammed down our throats is not about health care in case you haven't noticed.
Government should be limited as outlined in our constitution.
But forget it. The ship is sunk anyway. I will be amazed if we survive the coming catastrophe.[/b]
Luke 14:The Cost of Being a Disciple
25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
28"Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'
31"Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.
The cost of discipleship is very dear. You must be willing to give up even your freedom my friend, if you arn't then freedom becomes a false God, and you are worshiping that false God...good luck with that