Hear the Gospel

Rajk999

I would just like to say, it is a travesty, in my opinion, that such squabblings occur about the good news of the gospel. Jesus died for our sins for heavens sake and eternal life has been given to us as a gift from God.

I have to be honest with you Raj, you may be concerned with people who have a wrong theology in your opinion, but you sound very bitter. In fact, I know of people who have a similar theology to my own who sound very bitter and judgmental as well. All I can say is, believing the right theology does not save you if you do not have the love of God in your heart. Of course, you probably think I am attacking you, but I am only saying this out of concern. In fact, who am I? I am just dust as you are. What do I know about you other than what you write on these forums? In fact, I nothing at all other than God loves us all and only wishes that we reach out to him in love and in faith.

Originally posted by whodey
So let me ask you, have you sold everything you have and given it to the poor? If not, you may not be saved according to Jesus.

Matthew 19:16 And behold, one came and said to him, "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?......And Jesus said to him, "Do not murder, you should not commit adultery, you should not steal, you sh ...[text shortened]... ow me. But when the young man heard it, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Christ said give all that you have to the poor and follow Him, IF you want to be PERFECT. Whats the point?

Youre an extremist Whodey, you come up with these extreme cases. First it was the the thief on the cross ... you want to apply it to you and claim that because a man was nailed on the cross next to Christ and at deaths door, then thats the rule.

Now you quote where Christ is explaining what Perfection is. Perfection is giving away all that you have. Perfection is not a declaration of faith and waiting for Christ to forgive you and deliver you, and protect you and help you. Its not all about YOU. Its about GIVING.

I dont ask you what you do with your personal life. Dont ask me about mine and if or how much I give. Thats none of your business. Try to focus on the Bible and the teachings of Christ.

Originally posted by whodey
Rajk999

I would just like to say, it is a travesty, in my opinion, that such squabblings occur about the good news of the gospel. Jesus died for our sins for heavens sake and eternal life has been given to us as a gift from God.

I have to be honest with you Raj, you may be concerned with people who have a wrong theology in your opinion, but you sound v ...[text shortened]... t all other than God loves us all and only wishes that we reach out to him in love and in faith.

Agreed. So stop arguing with me and everything will be ok 🙂

I sound bitter becuase I am confronted with hypocritical Christians every day who claim to be saved and they do the most disgusting things. They are false and evil. There is no love and care for anyone but themselves. They are that way beacuse they are taught :

1. Their salvation is secure
2. Works is not important.
3. They will not be judged.

Martin Luther is responsible for the most unChristlike breed of Christians in the last 2000 years.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ said give all that you have to the poor and follow Him, IF you want to be PERFECT. Whats the point?

Youre an extremist Whodey, you come up with these extreme cases. First it was the the thief on the cross ... you want to apply it to you and claim that because a man was nailed on the cross next to Christ and at deaths door, then thats the rule.

...[text shortened]... much I give. Thats none of your business. Try to focus on the Bible and the teachings of Christ.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you have to sell all you have and give to the poor to be saved. I am simply trying to drive home the point that you need to take scriptures in context. I am simply in disagreement when you say good works are requirement to be saved much in the same manner having to sell all you have and give to the poor are a requirement. Both doing good works and selling all you have and giving to the poor ARE teachings of Christ, but they must be put into context, especially considering when not everyone who was saved Biblically have not always done these things.

I think the overall message is that we should love God with all our hearts. Therefore, those things that stand between us and God need to go. That is the context of the message that I see. Now as far as this person being saved, that is between him and God. I have no business in making that judgment.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Agreed. So stop arguing with me and everything will be ok 🙂

I sound bitter becuase I am confronted with hypocritical Christians every day who claim to be saved and they do the most disgusting things. They are false and evil. There is no love and care for anyone but themselves. They are that way beacuse they are taught :

1. Their salvation is secure
2 ...[text shortened]... rtin Luther is responsible for the most unChristlike breed of Christians in the last 2000 years.

I will not argue that there are not hypocritical Christians out there. In fact, if there were not Christ's teachings would be false because he warned against them. However, to say that because I hold the theology that we are saved by grace instead of works like Paul once said lest any man should boast that I am a hypocrite is quite the leap indeed!

As far as you sounding bitter, this does nothing for the cause of Christ. In fact, it hinders the cause of Christ. Who out there would want to entertain the thought of giving their hearts to Christ when you sound so bitter yet claim to have the love of God in your heart?

Originally posted by whodey
I will not argue that there are not hypocritical Christians out there. In fact, if there were not Christ's teachings would be false because he warned against them. However, to say that because I hold the theology that we are saved by grace instead of works like Paul once said lest any man should boast that I am a hypocrite is quite the leap indeed!

As fa ...[text shortened]... heir hearts to Christ when you sound so bitter yet claim to have the love of God in your heart?

Unless you have changed your stance toward homosexuals, you use the Bible as a weapon to further your bigotry towards them. You draw a hard line against homosexuals that you do no draw against the greedy, gluttons, etc. This is a double standard if not hypocrisy. Do you claim to have the "love of God" in your heart?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Unless you have changed your stance toward homosexuals, you use the Bible as a weapon to further your bigotry towards them. You draw a hard line against homosexuals that you do no draw against the greedy, gluttons, etc. This is a double standard if not hypocrisy. Do you claim to have the "love of God" in your heart?

I do not judge any homosexual. I simply stated that the Bible spoke out against homosexuality like it does being greedy or a glutton.

Originally posted by whodey
I do not judge any homosexual. I simply stated that the Bible spoke out against homosexuality like it does being greedy or a glutton.

Actually, you said that you supported the banning of practicing homosexuals from Church. However you did not indicate such support for banning the greedy, gluttons, etc. How is this not judging? How is this not a double standard?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Actually, you said that you supported the banning of practicing homosexuals from Church. However you did not indicate such support for banning the greedy, gluttons, etc. How is this not judging? How is this not a double standard?

That is not what I said. In fact, there are church's that do not teach that homosexuality is a sin. What I said was, if someone joins a church and agree to uphold a code of conduct they should be held accountable to uphold that code of conduct. In other words, if there are expectations such as not having sex outside of wedlock or being greedy or a glutton or participating in homosexual activity they should abide by that code of conduct or not join in the first place. That does not mean they cannot come to the church. That does not mean that those who have not joined the church should be approached and asked to change their ways. But if they join the church and they then do violate that code of conduct they should be confronted if it be made public. If they then do not seek repentance they then should be asked to leave.

Now as far as judging homosexuals, when I first became a Christian I admit I was judgmental against them in that if they admitted they were homosexual I automatically assumed they were not saved. This was, in part, due to the fact that those around me during that time held this view and taught this view. However, I am no longer affiliated with that crowd and my views have changed somewhat. Take for example someone like gaychessplayer who posts here every now and then. I have not once stood in judgment over him because of his homosexual tendencies. In fact, I would not be comfortable casting judgment upon him. Questions abound such as, is he currently involved in homosexual conduct? Why did Christ never teach anything regarding this activity? At the same time, however, it concerns me that in both the old and new testament homosexual conduct is cast in a negative light. In fact, it is called an abomination. Was this judgment within scripture against homosexual conduct "wrong"? I guess that is up to your view of scripture. For example, I know you disdain Paul's teachings and find him to be heretical in general and, if I recall, you viewed the OT teachings to have been sparked by other wicked cultures who were involved in promiscuous homosexual activity. All I can say is, that is your call but I am not comfortable making that judgment just as I would not be comfortable casting stones at gaychessplayer.

Originally posted by whodey
That is not what I said. In fact, there are church's that do not teach that homosexuality is a sin. What I said was, if someone joins a church and agree to uphold a code of conduct they should be held accountable to uphold that code of conduct. In other words, if there are expectations such as not having sex outside of wedlock or being greedy or a glutton le making that judgment just as I would not be comfortable casting stones at gaychessplayer.

You not only said it, you indicated that you would feel compelled to confront these homosexuals yourself. You later tried to couch it in terms of a given Church's "code of conduct". Even then, you did not find such a "code of conduct" as being bigoted which it clearly is. It's as bigoted as a "country club" excluding blacks, jews, etc.

Now, maybe your views have since changed. I can only hope they have.

Jesus did not teach such bigotry. So far as I know, only Paul did in the New Testament. Even then, I don't remember Paul advocating having a policy of exclusion. What I said about Biblical teachings was that it didn't address committed relationships, but rather men who sexually abuse boys, men who engage in homosexual ritual sex in Pagan temples, men intent on raping other men, heterosexuals who engage in homosexual acts, etc.

Originally posted by whodey
Rajk999

I would just like to say, it is a travesty, in my opinion, that such squabblings occur about the good news of the gospel. Jesus died for our sins for heavens sake and eternal life has been given to us as a gift from God.

I have to be honest with you Raj, you may be concerned with people who have a wrong theology in your opinion, but you sound v ...[text shortened]... t all other than God loves us all and only wishes that we reach out to him in love and in faith.

I would just like to say, it is a travesty, in my opinion, that such squabblings occur about the good news of the gospel.

I agree! Good grief. 😞
__________

But, there's no reason to be discouraged because God's word never fails:

Isaiah 55:11 says, "So shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it."

Amen! 😀 (it's smiley time.)

Originally posted by epiphinehas
, but it is not my intention in this thread to debate anyone. beyond that.[/b]

well youre doing a very good debate with anyone

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]I would just like to say, it is a travesty, in my opinion, that such squabblings occur about the good news of the gospel.

I agree! Good grief. 😞
__________

But, there's no reason to be discouraged because God's word never fails:

Isaiah 55:11 says, "So shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, wi ...[text shortened]... and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it."

Amen! 😀 (it's smiley time.)[/b]

So clearly God did not intend his Word to create understanding and harmony amongst Christians.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You not only said it, you indicated that you would feel compelled to confront these homosexuals yourself. You later tried to couch it in terms of a given Church's "code of conduct". Even then, you did not find such a "code of conduct" as being bigoted which it clearly is. It's as bigoted as a "country club" excluding blacks, jews, etc.

Now, maybe your ...[text shortened]... les, men intent on raping other men, heterosexuals who engage in homosexual acts, etc.

I am sorry if you got the wrong impression our last go around. What I posted here is the way I feel about it. I would just like to add that I find it sad that people focus on homosexuality as "the issue" as to whether or not one comes to Christ. In fact, we all have issues that need dealt with when we come to Christ. If we did not, we would not have to come to Christ in the first place. As for myself, I am still a work in progress. 😉

Originally posted by twhitehead
So clearly God did not intend his Word to create understanding and harmony amongst Christians.

The same could be said about the Torah during the time of Christ. In fact, the religious leaders used the Torah on more that one occasion to find fault with Christ. Case in point is when Christ healed on the Sabbath. They then accused him of breaking the Sabbath. Christ responded by saying that the Sabbath was made for man and not the other way around. Christ looked at the spirit of the law which is love rather than the the litigious nature of the law which is bondage. So here we have a good message being used in a "bad" way. In fact, the same could be said of any message that is good. Evil is simply a perversion of what is good and the fact that such perversions exist only go to show that evil exists in the world today.

To sum up, the good news about the Sabbath was the God set aside a day of rest that was unknown until that time. It was good news being perverted to a doctrine of bondage so that one would be scared to so much as sneeze on the Sabbath.