1. Standard memberRBHILL
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    28 Aug '14 04:28
    1. Good works: wide is the gate and a way that seems right?

    2. Jesus: the way, the truth, and the life also the narrow gate, the safer route!
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    28 Aug '14 04:311 edit
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    1. Good works: wide is the gate and a way that seems right?

    2. Jesus: the way, the truth, and the life also the narrow gate, the safer route!
    3. Not doing any of it with getting to heaven as one's obsessive goal?

    Adherents to 1 and 2 seem rather self-centered.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    28 Aug '14 04:45
    Originally posted by RBHILL

    Heaven: only 2 possible ways

    1. Good works: wide is the gate and a way that seems right?

    2. Jesus: the way, the truth, and the life also the narrow gate, the safer route!
    What's to stop you from simply imagining a third or even fourth possible ways into "existence"?
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 Aug '14 04:52
    Originally posted by JS357
    3. Not doing any of it with getting to heaven as one's obsessive goal?

    Adherents to 1 and 2 seem rather self-centered.
    I'd put that into the 1 the wide way that seems right to man, but ends his
    life in a very bad way.
    Kelly
  5. Standard memberRBHILL
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    28 Aug '14 05:28
    Originally posted by JS357
    3. Not doing any of it with getting to heaven as one's obsessive goal?

    Adherents to 1 and 2 seem rather self-centered.
    2 is not about self, 1 is though.
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    28 Aug '14 08:48
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    2 is not about self, 1 is though.
    The whole thread is about self. Its about trying to get yourself into heaven by whatever means possible. Not that there is anything wrong with self desire, but at least you should be honest about it.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    28 Aug '14 11:22
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    1. Good works: wide is the gate and a way that seems right?

    2. Jesus: the way, the truth, and the life also the narrow gate, the safer route!
    The passage about Jesus being the way and the truth and the life is not about going to heaven. It is about being built into "My Father's house" .

    The "place" to which He brings the saved is not heaven but a Person - the Father. This chapter is not about going to heaven but about being made one with God.

    I should start another thread sometime on the misconceptions about "going to heaven" popular in Christianity which is a kind leavening corrupting the Gospel with human concepts about being removed away to a happy place.

    Christ is the way and the truth and the life to lead people into the same reality that He Himself enjoys - utter "organic" unity with God as divinity and humanity mingled.

    This is why He starts His talk in that chapter -

    "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe into God, believe also into Me. In My Father's house are many abodes; if it were not so, I would have told you." (John 14:1,2)

    Jesus is saying that if He were the ONLY one who could enjoy this oneness with the Father, He would have told us. But His Father's house is not only Jesus as the dwelling place of the Father, but He goes to the cross to prepare a way for billions of other human beings to become abodes in the Father's house as well.
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    29 Aug '14 10:40
    Originally posted by sonship
    The passage about Jesus being the way and the truth and the life is not about going to heaven. It is about being built into [b]"My Father's house" .

    The "place" to which He brings the saved is not heaven but a Person - the Father. This chapter is not about going to heaven but about being made one with God.

    I should start another thread sometim ...[text shortened]... prepare a way for billions of other human beings to become abodes in the Father's house as well.[/b]
    The Ultimate Consummation of God's Economy: Heaven or the New Jerusalem?

    http://affcrit.com/archives/ac_00_02.html
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    29 Aug '14 11:12
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    The whole thread is about self. Its about trying to get yourself into heaven by whatever means possible. Not that there is anything wrong with self desire, but at least you should be honest about it.
    This is extremely cynical. Not that there is anything wrong with being cynical, but at least you should be honest about it.
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    29 Aug '14 11:161 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    What's to stop you from simply imagining a third or even fourth possible ways into "existence"?
    We can also imagine starships. That doesn't mean we'll be traveling the galaxy tomorrow.

    When you're given a guideline by God, you can either follow it, or not. 'Imagining' has little to do with it.
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    31 Aug '14 10:25
    Originally posted by JS357
    3. Not doing any of it with getting to heaven as one's obsessive goal?

    Adherents to 1 and 2 seem rather self-centered.
    JS357,

    RBHill's typing:
    "2. Jesus: the way, the truth, and the life also the narrow gate, the safer route!" is Christ centered.

    The 2nd way of depending on Christ is Christ centered, not human centered.

    I Corinthians 1: 23, 24
    But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

    But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

    Salvation itself is not earned by any human-being-only. Christ earned it for man.
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    31 Aug '14 10:411 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    The whole thread is about self. Its about trying to get yourself into heaven by whatever means possible. Not that there is anything wrong with self desire, but at least you should be honest about it.
    TWhitehead,
    Where in the bible does God declare that wanting to be with God is selfishness over others and over God Himself?

    Don't think of "self" being just a human body. Think of "self" as a personal desire over God. Self can want to sin and get away with it. Self can want to live its own way and disobey God. Self can want to usurp God Himself. Think of "self" as doing our own thing when God is displeased. Think of "selfless" as doing what God wants us to do.

    Wanting to be with God and live with God's purpose and without sin forever is not against God. It is agreement with God. When a being wants to obey God and live in God's control and desires, how is that "self?"
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    31 Aug '14 10:52
    Sonship,
    You typed:
    ------------------
    The passage about Jesus being the way and the truth and the life is not about going to heaven. It is about being built into [b]"My Father's house" .
    ------------------

    Prove that by scripture.

    When Moses and Elijah appeared before the 3 disciples, how could they have done that if they were absorbed in God?
    How did Samuel talk to King Saul if he had been absorbed after death? How was the thief on a cross by Christ Jesus to go into paradise if he was going to be absorbed into God? Also, didn't Jesus insinuate to some Jews that Abraham is alive rather than dead. If Abraham is alive still, then how is Abraham absorbed in God?
  14. Standard memberAgerg
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    31 Aug '14 11:52
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    We can also imagine starships. That doesn't mean we'll be traveling the galaxy tomorrow.

    When you're given a guideline by God, you can either follow it, or not. 'Imagining' has little to do with it.
    Only you haven't actually been given any guidelines from "God". The guidelines you refer to come from a book written by humans.
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    31 Aug '14 12:311 edit
    Agerg,
    Even the first set of the 10 Commandments were physically brought down a mountain to Israel by Moses. God used man to convey knowledge. Do you think that God should not have used man? As long as God's words are not "thus saith the mind of mans' words," why should there be a problem?

    If God wanted to use man to write down the scriptures they were told to write, why do you not want that?
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