1. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    28 Aug '15 13:48
    There are many religions that have a certain concept of hell. Which is, eternal suffering. This is opposed to eternal bliss for those that managed to check the necessary boxes on the "go to heaven" form.

    Let's talk about it.
    First off, punishment for a crime (sin)
    We humans have invented the concept of punishment for crimes as a means to deter crimes. One reason is that someone who breaks the law must be punished in one way or the other so that others view it as an example of the consequences of breaking the law and hopefully not do the same.

    In the context of the afterlife, this is no longer a concern. the world is over, who would god want to make an example for? there would be no killing in the afterlife, no pain no suffering. the rules and limitations of the material life no longer apply.


    Secondly:
    Punishment is not justice.
    someone does a crime, it is a very slight comfort to a victim that the criminal is being punished. i lose my life's savings, i would rather i get them back instead of the thief going to jail. someone kills a loved one, i would rather that loved one be brought back to life. now say i reached the afterlife. my murdered wife is waiting for me there. i get to spend an eternity with my wife and the murderer is being tortured in hell? what for? i have my wife and she has me, we are happy. why is another individual being tortured? and for how long?


    Infinite reward for a finite action is not justice.
    This includes the eternal bliss thing for a finite amount of good deeds, that is equally unjust to torturing someone for eternity.

    humans are not really good at appreciating infinity. some thought that an infinte punishment would be a good idea for breaking a rule or more.

    there are many murderers in jail who are tormented with remorse. they are repentant after they had some time to think. they are not really the same person. now imagine that person being tortured for a million years. i would say he had some time to repent. he had some time to think. is he the same person the sinner was when he died? how about after a million years more?




    There are many more reasons hell is a bad idea. let's have fun finding more aspects that are troubling
  2. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    28 Aug '15 14:432 edits
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    There are many religions that have a certain concept of hell. Which is, eternal suffering. This is opposed to eternal bliss for those that managed to check the necessary boxes on the "go to heaven" form.

    Let's talk about it.
    First off, punishment for a crime (sin)
    We humans have invented the concept of punishment for crimes as a means to deter crimes. O ...[text shortened]... re are many more reasons hell is a bad idea. let's have fun finding more aspects that are troubling.
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "There are many religions that have a certain concept of hell. Which is, eternal suffering. This is opposed to eternal bliss for those that managed to check the necessary boxes on the "go to heaven" form.

    Let's talk about it.
    First off, punishment for a crime (sin)..."
    __________________________________

    Zahlanzi, the 1st order of business is to grasp hold of the fact that "(sin)" is not the issue in becoming an undeserving recipient of God's grace [absolutely free] gift of salvation and eternal life which is appropriated/accepted by faith alone in Christ alone who paid the price in full [which satisfied God the Father's Justice and Righteousness] during His substitutionary spiritual death [separation from God the Father during the final three hours of His Crucifixion] on behalf of all members of the depraved human race which includes you and me.

    2nd is to discover that Christianity is not a "religion". It is a personal relationship with God in time and eternity.
  3. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86373
    28 Aug '15 14:582 edits
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Zahlanzi, the 1st order of business is to grasp hold of the fact...
    Grampy Bobby, considering your declaration in your "Sheol" thread that you believe that there is a literal cavern at the center of the earth which consists of the 4 compartments of Sheol; it will probably be quite difficult for other posters to take your admonishments to "grasp hold of facts" with any degree of credulity.
  4. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    28 Aug '15 15:092 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Grampy Bobby, considering your declaration in your "Sheol" thread that you believe that there is a literal cavern at the center of the earth which consists of the 4 caverns of Sheol; it will probably be quite difficult for other posters to take you admonishments to "grasp hold of facts" with any degree of credulity.
    Could well be as you've surmised; however, please realize that "Grampy Bobby" did not write any of the sixty six books contained in the Word of God; he's still in the process of learning the absolute truths it reveals. The only issue for a believer in Christ after salvation is to decide on Priority #1: a) Grow in grace and acquire the Mind of Christ [divine viewpoint] or b) Remain an infant or toddler with subjective opinions and human viewpoint.
  5. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86373
    28 Aug '15 15:201 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Could well be as you've surmised; however, please realize that "Grampy Bobby" did not write any of the sixty six books contained in the Word of God; he's still in the process of learning the absolute truths it reveals. The only issue for a believer in Christ after salvation is to decide on Priority #1: a) Grow in grace and acquire the Mind of Christ [divine viewpoint] or b) Remain an infant or toddler with subjective opinions and human viewpoint.
    Yes, I'm am aware of all those points, thank you for highlighting them.

    Do you think that you, a grown man of maturity and senior in Christian years posting on an internet forum that he believes that there is an underground cavern somewhere deep in the earth where the 4 compartments of Sheol house those unfortunate enough to be there, is as you put it: "growing in grace" or "remaining and infant with subjective opinions and a human viewpoint"?
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148447
    28 Aug '15 15:47
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    There are many religions that have a certain concept of hell. Which is, eternal suffering. This is opposed to eternal bliss for those that managed to check the necessary boxes on the "go to heaven" form.

    Let's talk about it.
    First off, punishment for a crime (sin)
    We humans have invented the concept of punishment for crimes as a means to deter crimes ...[text shortened]... are many more reasons hell is a bad idea. let's have fun finding more aspects that are troubling
    No one is worried about a concept, a reality...now that should give us pause.
  7. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    28 Aug '15 15:571 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Yes, I'm am aware of all those points, thank you for highlighting them.

    Do you think that you, a grown man of maturity and senior in Christian years posting on an internet forum that he believes that there is an underground cavern somewhere deep in the earth where the 4 compartments of Sheol house those unfortunate enough to be there, is as you put it: "growing in grace" or "remaining and infant with subjective opinions and a human viewpoint"?
    It's simply a reminder of the horrific eternal destiny awaiting all who say "No" to God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life. Period.
  8. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
    in London
    Joined
    14 Mar '15
    Moves
    8547
    28 Aug '15 16:04
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    No one is worried about a concept, a reality...now that should give us pause.
    Being reincarnated as a cat,...now that should also give us paws.

    😞
  9. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86373
    28 Aug '15 18:231 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    It's simply a reminder of the horrific eternal destiny awaiting all who say "No" to God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life. Period.
    If you truly believe that there is a "horrific eternal destiny" awaiting those people who fail to find credibility in the gospels; do you think that telling all those in this peril that the physical location of this horror destination is actually in a location that can be envisaged as something from a set from Journey to the Center of The Earth and that this somehow increases the credibility of the gospel?
  10. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86373
    28 Aug '15 18:261 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    No one is worried about a concept, a reality...now that should give us pause.
    Do you agree with Grampy Bobby that the "reality" of hell, is a actually cavern way below the surface of the Earth?
  11. Standard memberHandyAndy
    Non sum qualis eram
    At the edge
    Joined
    23 Sep '06
    Moves
    18031
    28 Aug '15 19:20
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Zahlanzi, the 1st order of business is to grasp hold of the fact that "(sin)" is not the issue in becoming an undeserving recipient of God's grace [absolutely free] gift of salvation and eternal life which is appropriated/accepted by faith alone in Christ alone who paid the price in full [which satisfied God the Father's Justice and Righteousness] durin ...[text shortened]... His Crucifixion] on behalf of all members of the depraved human race which includes you and me.
    Then it's blackmail. Believe in me categorically or suffer unspeakable torture for eternity.
  12. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    28 Aug '15 19:411 edit
    Originally posted by HandyAndy
    Then it's blackmail. Believe in me categorically or suffer unspeakable torture for eternity.
    I believe in you Randolph thats torture enough for any man! 😛
  13. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86373
    28 Aug '15 21:13
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I believe in you Randolph thats torture enough for any man! 😛
    What do you have to say on this thread topic, or indeed, the Sheol thread topic?
  14. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    28 Aug '15 21:34
    Originally posted by divegeester
    What do you have to say on this thread topic, or indeed, the Sheol thread topic?
    What do I have to say, hmmm, not much.
  15. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86373
    28 Aug '15 21:44
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    What do I have to say, hmmm, not much.
    I've noticed this trend lately where you like to chip in and yet say nothing.
Back to Top