Originally posted by CoconutAnd you assume that the author of these passages did?
Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life.
Good question. I guess it means separation of the soul from God is death. We don't know about bodies and what is "alive" in these places beyond earth.
It's the blind leading the blind...
Originally posted by geniusGenius, I believe that much of the Bible speaks in spiritual metaphor, a kind of symbolic language that has been rendered literal in many cases by scribes and so-called authorities who were themselves far removed from the living master who spoke these words.
John 3:16,
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever beleived in him may not perish but have eternal life"
Does that infer that in Hell you do not live? You are just, in effect, dead?
"Eternal life" is, I believe, a metaphor for spiritual awakening. It has nothing to do with some resort you go to in some heaven world to spend eternity thumping the backs of others who made it there with you. Nor is this "eternal life" reached simply by investing in Jesus Mutual Funds. It is more properly a poetic expression of the clarity and wisdom and compassion that can arise from seriously dedicating oneself to a spiritual path. "Eternity" refers to the timelessness of the present moment when the mind is calm, free of ego-agendas. "Life" is synonymous with consciousness, clarity, being fully awake. And yes Christ was a demonstration of this, and so in a very real sense he is a guiding light to that reality.
"One and only son" needs to be closely understood. If Christ is representative of maximum human potential -- similar to what the Buddhists call the "Buddha-mind" -- then in effect he is representative of a principle of reality, much more than being just a "person". Seen that way, "Christ" (as the awakened mind) is indeed the "only son" because this awakened mind is necessarily impersonal, and accessible to all. And obviously, you don't need to be a "Christian" to access that awakened mind if in fact it is inherent to being human. Nor is it necessary to have ever heard of Jesus.
That's how I see it, anyway. 🙂
Originally posted by geniusExactly. But this is not when you die. At the "end", when the demons, and unbelievers are tossed into the "Lake of fire"(hell), they burn up and die.
John 3:16,
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever beleived in him may not perish but have eternal life"
Does that infer that in Hell you do not live? You are just, in effect, dead?
You are right quoting that verse and you interpreted it properly...here is another one...
I Jn 5:12
12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
(NKJ)
Wouldn't it be logical to conclude that if you go to hell and burn forever, you need eternal life?...🙂
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Originally posted by dagsWasn't it you who said, "There is no hell. It something the christians made up to keep you in line
Because like many other things the christians stole it.
Now your saying, "Because like many other things the christians stole it.
Seems to me you just want to bash Christians, you have them
making things up, when you discover that hell was around before
there were Christians, then we stole it according to you.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayGood one Kelley.......🙂
Wasn't it you who said, "[b]There is no hell. It something the christians made up to keep you in line
Now your saying, "Because like many other things the christians stole it.
Seems to me you just want to bash Christians, you have them
making things up, when you discover that hell was around before
there were Christians, then we stole it according to you.
Kelly[/b]
Originally posted by Bosse de NageBecause if it is all metaphors, then the bible is useless. Anyone can make it mean whatever they want...this is a cunning attack on the integrity of the Word of God...nothing new....😴
Why are good posts like the one that this came from completely ignored? Hellfire Christians, are you stumped?
Originally posted by checkbaiterRight then... pass the chalice of blood!
Because if it is all metaphors, then the bible is useless. Anyone can make it mean whatever they want...this is a cunning attack on the integrity of the Word of God...nothing new....😴
(An interesting metaphor in its own right for all the deaths we can attribute to religious zealotry through the ages. Except, of course for "the meek"....)
This has to be heaven 'cos we're obviously not quite dead enough yet for it to be hell.
Well, maybe between the ears.... Some of us... I'm for the eternal present! Life as a gift!!!
Originally posted by widgetI do not expect you to understand spiritual matters.
Right then... pass the chalice of blood!
(An interesting metaphor in its own right for all the deaths we can attribute to religious zealotry through the ages. Except, of course for "the meek"....)
This has to be heaven 'cos we're obviously not quite dead enough yet for it to be hell.
Well, maybe between the ears.... Some of us... I'm for the eternal present! Life as a gift!!!
1 Cor 2:13-16
13These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
16For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
(NKJ)
🙂
Originally posted by checkbaiterMy karma could eat your dogma for breakfast!
I do not expect you to understand spiritual matters.
(Another startlingly Christian metaphor!)
... so, alright then... pass the chalice of mongrel's blood!
In return, I do not expect you to understand anything that wasn't written in a dusty old book penned by goodness knows how many misfits and maniacs a couple of thousand years ago. And y'all seem quite capable of debating to death & hellishness even these words that you claim are so important.
Meanwhile, many of us are choosing to live in the present. Its a gift!!!
Originally posted by widgetDo believe in Karma?
My karma could eat your dogma for breakfast!
[b](Another startlingly Christian metaphor!)
... so, alright then... pass the chalice of mongrel's blood!
In return, I do not expect you to understand anything that wasn't written in a dusty old book penned by goodness knows how many misfits and maniacs a couple of thousand years ago. And y'all ...[text shortened]... m are so important.
Meanwhile, many of us are choosing to live in the present. Its a gift!!![/b]
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Originally posted by checkbaiterWithout getting into a round of cross-definitional obfuscation, Mr.Baiter, I believe that what we do has consequences. Living as much as I can manage in the present, I believe that these consequences resonate in every moment, through every interaction, all of the time. This means, f'r instance, here. This always means, naturally, now!
Do - [I] - believe in Karma?
(Perhaps your definition of hell is my obligation to engage you in this narcissistic debate, from my perspective...)
Don't you believe in Dogma? Isn't it time you took it for a walk?
Originally posted by checkbaiterThe Bible is rich in metaphor. "I am the way, the truth, & the life"...that is metaphor. "Fishers of men"...an excellent metaphor. Then there's that business about the wheat & the chaff...or was Jesus really quoting the Farmer's Almanac? Perhaps Paul really did have a thorn in his side after all...Metaphor is fundamental to Biblical language. If metaphor is useless, so is the Bible.
Because if it is all metaphors, then the bible is useless.
In my opinion, Metamorphosis, far from attacking Christ, interprets his message in a way that enables it to be rehabilitated for people who, having been exposed to nothing more than hellfire and brimstone, would otherwise be inclined to ridicule or fear. What is more palatable--a path based on maximising human potential (into the spiritual) or one that is no use until you're dead?
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Originally posted by Bosse de Nageyes the bible is full of metaphor-"i shall tear down the temple and rebuild it in 3 days" is a prime example. "i am the way, the truth and the life" is not. the latter is a statement. a truth. it cannot be taken any other way and is fundamental to the Christain philosophy. if this is false then Jesus did not die and rise again (i mean, why would he? was it just all a nice magic trick then?). what metamorphosis has done, i beleive, is to take the bible and forget about the most blatantly clear message in the new testaent-that Christ died to save us! (and, for frogstomp, rose again. that is, i'm saying that to humour frogstomp. although he did rise again for frogstomp. and you. yes, you-reading this! muahaha)
The Bible is rich in metaphor. "I am the way, the truth, & the life"...that is metaphor. "Fishers of men"...an excellent metaphor. Then there's that business about the wheat & the chaff...or was Jesus really quoting the Farmer's Almanac? Perhaps Paul really did have a thorn in his side after all...Metaphor is fundamental to Biblical language. If ...[text shortened]... maximising human potential (into the spiritual) or one that is no use until you're dead?
metamorphosis stated his opinion. and it was rather nice, i liked it. nicely written and very thought-provoking. However, imo, it is wrong, purely because it forgets the fundamental basis of Christainity.
EDIT:"no use until you're dead?" i am in Love. is love no use until i am dead?