Help for JW cult members.

Originally posted by TheSurgeon
I guess the way I see things is that there has never been and never will be a perfect church that is run here on earth. This is because all people are flawed and continually sin. The good news is that we don't have to be without sin to receive the gift of salvation because it's by God's grace that we are saved.

Now as Christians we are called to st ...[text shortened]... hould be united under what we have in common rather than divided by our disagreements.

You just hit the nail on the head my friend. Unity!!!!!! This is exactly what the bible says should happen and in fact has to happen. If it doesn't, we see the results now with hundreds of religions that call themselves Christian.
So if one understands the scriptures explinations of that word and all it encompasses then one is beginning to understand what a christian religion has to be. It will not happen between various christian religions as in getting together and all understanding the Bible on all levels and actually agreeing. That will never happen as history is showing even today.
So as hard as it is to believe that it can actually happen in the face of billions of opinions on this planet, it has within the Jehovah's Witnesses organization.
Jesus said it would happen and that would be one of the many signs that would identify who they were.

Originally posted by galveston75
You just hit the nail on the head my friend. Unity!!!!!! This is exactly what the bible says should happen and in fact has to happen. If it doesn't, we see the results now with hundreds of religions that call themselves Christian.
So if one understands the scriptures explinations of that word and all it encompasses then one is beginning to understand w ...[text shortened]... aid it would happen and that would be one of the many signs that would identify who they were.

I think it's now important for me to clarify whether we are really speaking of the same unity.

My definition of unity in Christ includes anyone and everyone who is willing to acknowledge that Jesus Christ died for his/her sins and accepts Christ's gift of grace/salvation.

It seems like you just redefined my scope to mean unity in every interpretation of every piece of scripture.

It can be said that unity exists within a particular church or denomination, but that's not really what I'm referring to. The Catholic church for example has a good deal of unity within its structure as well.

I'm saying that NO earthly church has every interpretation of every detail correct. I would further state that belonging to a specific church means nothing when it comes to your own personal spirituality. Every person has their own unique journey and we can't take the journey on behalf of someone else. There are pew sitters (really unbelievers), beginner Christians, moderate Christians, and advanced Christians in every Christian church throughout the world. It's not the church I sit in that determines my measure in God's eyes. It's how far along I have come in my faith and trust in God that he reads from my heart that matters.

Originally posted by TheSurgeon
I think it's now important for me to clarify whether we are really speaking of the same unity.

My definition of unity in Christ includes anyone and everyone who is willing to acknowledge that Jesus Christ died for his/her sins and accepts Christ's gift of grace/salvation.

It seems like you just redefined my scope to mean unity in every interpretatio long I have come in my faith and trust in God that he reads from my heart that matters.

See if this helps with my explination of unity and feel fry to look up the scriptures:

UNITY in the Christian congregation is vital. Disunity in doctrinal belief would give rise to fierce disputes, dissension, and even enmity. (Acts 23:6-10) The Bible says that “God is a God, not of disorder, but of peace.” (1 Corinthians 14:33) Hence, Christians are admonished to speak in agreement and to be united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.—1 Corinthians 1:10.

Are these words and similar Bible passages encouraging strict uniformity among Christians in every respect? (John 17:20-23; Galatians 3:28) Does true Christianity as described in the Bible discourage variety when it comes to individual personalities? Are all Christians expected to fit into some sort of rigid mold?

Unity and Variety—A Delicate Balance

The apostle Paul set a good example of Christian balance. Although having authority as an apostle of Christ, he was careful not to impose his opinion on others.
For instance, Paul had a very strong opinion about the advantages of singleness in this imperfect world. He himself was single at the time he wrote: “Those who [marry] will have tribulation in their flesh,” and, “[a widow] is happier if she remains as she is, according to my opinion.” The fact that his words became part of the inspired Word of God indicates that there was nothing wrong with his opinion. Yet, he also explained: “Even if you did marry, you would commit no sin.”—1 Corinthians 7:28, 40.
Evidently, most of the apostles were married men, as Paul acknowledged with the words: “We have authority to lead about a sister as a wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas, do we not?” (1 Corinthians 9:5) Christians knew that in this matter they could make choices different from Paul’s and he would still respect them.
Worshipers of God have always been allowed to express their faith in harmony with their unique personality. In fact, God even allowed the Bible writers to use individual style when writing. For example, in all humility Nehemiah wrote his account in the first person. (Nehemiah 5:6, 19) On the other hand, out of modesty the apostle John never once used his own name in his Gospel account and rarely referred to himself. God approved of both styles and had them preserved in the Bible.
Similar examples of balance and reasonableness are found throughout the Scriptures. Clearly, Christian unity allows for variety. Of course, diversity of backgrounds and opinions can lead to disunity when spiritual qualities are lacking. (Romans 16:17, 18) But when we ‘clothe ourselves with love, the perfect bond of union,’ we learn to accept and enjoy the unique personalities of others.—Colossians 3:14.
“Therefore welcome one another,” says the Bible, “just as the Christ also welcomed us, with glory to God in view.” (Romans 15:7) With the help of God’s spirit, Christians can achieve the delicate balance of maintaining unity while enjoying a variety of unique personalities in the congregation.

Awake 2/8 page 15


Unity, Not Uniformity

In another of his letters, Paul urged Christians to serve God with their “power of reason.” (Romans 12:1) Certainly, then, he would not have been trying to turn members of the Corinthian congregation into unthinking automatons. But why did he tell them to be “fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought”? Paul gave this counsel because the congregation in Corinth was experiencing a serious problem. Factions had developed, so that some viewed Apollos as their leader while others favored Paul or Peter or held only to Christ. Such disunity was no trivial matter, for it threatened the peace of the congregation.
Paul wanted the Corinthians to “observe the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace,” just as he later admonished the Christians at Ephesus. (Ephesians 4:3) He was encouraging the brothers to follow Jesus Christ unitedly, not to be split into disunited groups, or sects. In this way they would enjoy a peaceful harmony of purpose. (John 17:22) Paul’s counsel to the Corinthians thus served to readjust their thinking and promote unity, not uniformity.—2 Corinthians 13:9, 11.
Unity is also important in matters of doctrine. Footstep followers of Jesus realize that there is really only “one faith,” just as there is only “one God and Father.” (Ephesians 4:1-6) Hence, Christians make sure that what they believe is in harmony with the truth that God has revealed in his Word about himself and his purposes. They are united in their belief about who God is and what he requires. They also live up to the clear moral standards set out in God’s Word. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) In this way Christians remain united, both doctrinally and morally.

Awake 5/8 pages 26-27

Originally posted by galveston75
Ok. Here it is if I really have to make it this simple that a 6 year old would get it.

NO!!!!!!

OK, now we are talking and getting somewhere, thank you for being direct.

Now, and this is the crux, why it is not possible to leave the JW organisation without it being interpreted as "turning your back on Jehovah"?



Edit: remember this is critical right, so please be very concise. Thanks.

Originally posted by galveston75
See if this helps with my explination of unity and feel fry to look up the scriptures:

UNITY in the Christian congregation is vital. Disunity in doctrinal belief would give rise to fierce disputes, dissension, and even enmity. (Acts 23:6-10) The Bible says that “God is a God, not of disorder, but of peace.” (1 Corinthians 14:33) Hence, Christians are ...[text shortened]... 1) In this way Christians remain united, both doctrinally and morally.

Awake 5/8 pages 26-27

I fully agree with Paul's teachings and agree with the idea of unity not uniformity. I think it's unfortunate that through the ages we felt the need to splinter off into various denominations that bicker with one another rather than focusing on what we all have in common. It's the attitude of 'We're right and your wrong' over petty things that is divisive that Paul tells us to guard against.

I am trying to extrapolate from your previous response to divegeester and this one that you just provided to me what your precise view is. I'm going to take a shot at it and if I got it wrong please correct me because I don't mean to misrepresent your position:

I believe you are saying that Paul's teachings lead to the conclusion that there should be one church denomination rather than many. The JW church because it has internal agreement on it's interpretations of scripture demonstrates the unity that Paul was referring to and thus is the correct church. The other denominations are, therefore, misguided and thus walking away from the JW church means taking a path that leads away from God?

Is that an accurate summation?

Originally posted by TheSurgeon
I fully agree with Paul's teachings and agree with the idea of unity not uniformity. I think it's unfortunate that through the ages we felt the need to splinter off into various denominations that bicker with one another rather than focusing on what we all have in common. It's the attitude of 'We're right and your wrong' over petty things that is divisi ...[text shortened]... church means taking a path that leads away from God?

Is that an accurate summation?

Sure I would agree but there is much more to it then just the unity even though that is an important one.
Jesus said you would know them by their fruits, not just one fruit or quality but on many levels.
Don't get me wrong because there are other Christian religions that do try to do as Jesus said and on some levels they are close and are trying.
As was mentioned some will not fight in wars, some may not vote or really get involved in their countries politics as Jesus said not to do.
Even some may not tolerate such things as fornication, homosexuality and may even remove them from their association.
But there are more things Jesus described and one of the more obvious is his command to go to the entire inhabited world to teach what he taught, even to their doors.
Again some do this on a small scale such as the Mormon's. But this is only done by the men and only for a short few years and then somehow that saves them. So it seems a little shallow, but still they do attempt some kind of teaching work.

So many religions may do some or just a few of the things Jesus taught not only in how to live a clean and moral life but also how to teach that to others so they in turn can do the same.

Again Jesus did not say to pick and choose if any are even chosen at all of how we are to be as a follower of Jesus.

One either does all he said to the utmost or they would fall short.

If it was just up to us as individuals to follow Jesus and do as we personally feel about it, he would have said that. But he as well as the followers of that time were cleary a part of a circuit of congregations that all did just as Jesus told by mouth and by example of how they were to all be in complete unity in all spiritual matters and how to interact with ones that did not, even to the point of no association or as little as possible.
He said his Kingdom and his followers were no part of the world. One must follow this command from Jesus and learn what it means and then do what it implys.

Originally posted by galveston75
Sure I would agree but there is much more to it then just the unity even though that is an important one.
Jesus said you would know them by their fruits, not just one fruit or quality but on many levels.
Don't get me wrong because there are other Christian religions that do try to do as Jesus said and on some levels they are close and are trying.
...[text shortened]... d. One must follow this command from Jesus and learn what it means and then do what it implys.

Why won't you answer my simple question Galveston?

Originally posted by galveston75
Sure I would agree but there is much more to it then just the unity even though that is an important one.
Jesus said you would know them by their fruits, not just one fruit or quality but on many levels.
Don't get me wrong because there are other Christian religions that do try to do as Jesus said and on some levels they are close and are trying.
...[text shortened]... d. One must follow this command from Jesus and learn what it means and then do what it implys.

Thanks for clarifying that a bit more. I do have one other question that's not as clear to me yet. Do JW believe that it's by doing everything that Christ did that you obtain salvation as opposed to simply needing to accept his gift of grace?

Bump for Galveston.

In response to you saying above that it is not possible to leave the JW organisation without it being interpreted as "turning your back on Jehovah"

Could you explain why it is impossible please?

Thanks.

Originally posted by divegeester
Why won't you answer my simple question Galveston?

He has probably got amnesia again just like robbie. It seems to come and go for these JWs. You probably put him under too much psychological trauma, 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
He has probably got amnesia again just like robbie. It seems to come and go for these JWs. You probably put him under too much psychological trauma, 😏

What is is it about the phrase "bump for Galveston" that that triggers your pea-brain into spamming up my thread with your more of your idiocy.

Originally posted by divegeester
What is is it about the phrase [b]"bump for Galveston" that that triggers your pea-brain into spamming up my thread with your more of your idiocy.[/b]

Maybe you are hallucinating again. There was nothing about a bump for Galveston on that post. OR maybe you are dreaming. WAKE UP! 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe you are hallucinating again. There was nothing about a bump for Galveston on that post. OR maybe you are dreaming. WAKE UP! 😏

You must be without doubt the biggest blithering twerp here at rhp. You cheat at chess, you piss all over people's threads with your inane retarded posts and bring discredit to the Gospel (or try to).

What's more I'm jet-lagged, so stay away from me and out of my threads or I'll reach through the internet, stretch your scrote over your head and speed-ball it.