Originally posted by sonship
apathist, I am skimming over posts which I ascertain will be too offensive. But I forgive you.

I can forgive because God has so forgiven me so very much. I mocked Christians in my senior year in highschool in my English class. The teacher was reading the words to the Hymn [b]"Are You Washed in the Blood of the Lamb".

I mocked while all the other ...[text shortened]... a joke to me.

Anyway, you're forgiven by me at least.
Now, reading the holy Bible is good.[/b]

Im confused here. A man chooses to mock / insult God or the Bible.

What does that have to do with YOU?
Why do YOU feel the need to forgive the man?

Are you playing God again?

Originally posted by divegeester

Yes I disagree with much of your doctrine and teaching which is one thing and I find it difficult to stomach your pouting pompousness when you get challenged.

Lately, I have not seen too many effective "challenges" from you. I see what comes off to me as dismissal based on a genetic fallacy. I am a plagiarizing copycat. It seems that the content is not addressed but only that it must not be original.

Number one - I often distinguish my study from that which I have derived truth from other's.

Number two - It shouldn't matter that I repeat others' words if the treatment of biblical truth is good Christ centered, Christ glorifying.

"But Ah ... You'er so pompous" you say. That's in the eye of the beholder. Do you think insult against me personally so as to diminish my pride alters the truth of God's word ?

Anyway, I like Paul's word to Timothy, which some may have regarded as Timothy being pompous -

" Charge and teach these things.

Let no one despise your youth, but be a pattern to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. " ( 1 Timothy 4:11,12)

"But this is not your pulpit" you may protest. Okay. But still I can heed Paul's word -

"But you, speak the things which are fitting to healthy teaching.... These things speak, and exhort and convict with all authority. Let no one despise you." (Titus 1:1,15)

I just want to be a normal Christian brother in this public square. Sorry if it seem pompous to you.

But what caps it off is that you should credit the originators of the messages and ministries which you are presenting here as your own insights.

We've been through this false accusation before.
Countless times I have referred readers to the specific books that confirmed something I said. That is so that if they are interested they may read more and even a better and more thorough treatment.

Besides, it is mainly the BIBLE that I am expounding here. Probably more so than most posters with some exceptions, I refer to further reading in the Bible.

Why don't you forget about laboring to accuse me of peddling others' words as my own (either for profit or for pride) and deal with what problems you see with what is said.

Besides this complaint can be a Catch 22 situation anyway. If someone writes something you can object - "Oh Yea? Says WHO else." And if you say "This other person said so" you then come back with "Copycat. Plagiarizer! "

In other words damned if you do and damned if you don't.

You can lather it up with platitudes about the message begin more important that the owner, but this is just you burying your conscience.

What's wrong with platitudes?

Did I provide an address and names to whom you might make complaints of plagiarism? You're beating a dead horse.

Hey, what do you think about the importance of reading the Bible?
Do you have some positive things as way of helps to that topic?

Any particular positive helps to contribute ??

Cont. with Divegeester -

You have been presenting the ministries and spiritual insights of others and passing them off as your own for years.

LOL !!!

If that is all you're complaining about that is silly.
Please go back now YEARS to old posts I wrote and notice that then I also recommended where further reading could be found.

I just went to page 23 of old posts and spot checked a long argument in 2013 between me and Rajk999. Post after post, all I needed was my own examination of the words of the book of Hebrews and my own skill to cut straight the word of God.

This is 2013 - about five years ago. We go on back and forth like this for post after post. There is no need to say what I am presenting cannot be readily ascertained by ANY careful student of what the words of the relevant passages SAY.

That I am ONLY regurgitating another writer is your naivete at best. And at worst it is your dishonest false accusation.

Anyway, anyone wanting to examine my practice can look up all my posts under my name. They can start from the back and work their way forward in time to see how many times I have quoted others for a confirming support. And NO indeed, such quotes were not limited to Watchman Nee and Witness Lee.

I have quoted many authors including so called "Church Fathers" and Post Nicean theologians.

You know, and complained, that I supported things I wrote by quoting very early church theologians.

I have quoted Andrew Murray, John Nelson Darby, Norman Giesler (a critic of Witness Lee) - who on other subjects has been a help to me. I have quoted D.M. Panton, G.H. Pember, William Lane Craig, Paul Copan, C.S. Lewis (probably, I think), Hugh Ross, Arthur C. Custance, (particularly in my long debates with RJHinds). I have quoted Ron Kangus ( another student of Witness Lee). I have quoted for support Gerald Schroeder in discussions touching on faith and science. I have referred to and quoted John Lennox, probably Gregory Koukl ( I believe), and J.P. Moreland, and probably Lee Strobel.

If some have not been directly cut and paste or quoted, I have certainly leaned upon these people for support.

Over the years here I have quite often told readers where things I said were either learned from or found support.

And when you get down to it, shouldn't there be some concordance among Christians about some truths anyway ??

No, Divegeester, I have no lust for bragging " Hey folks! Look at me write original thoughts that I could even copyright ! See how smart I am ? " Conveying this kind of novel individuality is vainglory. Helping people to understand God's economy is important to me.

Oh, the term "God's economy" comes out of the New Testament. And I did began to use it after learning from a book called "The Economy of God" by Witness Lee.

Here's a portion of it -

CHAPTER ONE

THE ECONOMY OF THE TRIUNE GOD

My burden in all the messages I am giving here is to share with you something of God’s economy. Let us read 1 Timothy chapter 1, verses 3 through 7: “That you might charge certain ones not to teach different things nor to give heed to myths and unending genealogies, which produce questionings rather than God’s economy, which is in faith. But the end of the charge is love out of a pure heart and out of a good conscience and out of unfeigned faith; from which things some, having misaimed, have turned aside to vain talking, desiring to be teachers of the law.”

These verses contain two very important expressions as indicated in Greek, the original language of the New Testament: God’s economy and misaimed. The apostle Paul was chosen by God to bear the responsibility for God’s economy, and he trained his spiritual son Timothy in this economy. It is quite interesting to note that Paul’s Epistles to Timothy were written at a time when many Christians had drifted from the original pathway. They had missed the central mark of God’s economy and were paying attention to something else.

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?cid=26 [My bolding]

Isn't that good ?

Originally posted by sonship
BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

No you have downshifted into "hairdryer" mode, presumably in a vain attempt to throw me off of the scent of your plagiarism.

Originally posted by Suzianne
How do people assume that "people do not understand the point of the above"?

It's clear from the posts of many who participate on this forum that they don't truly understand what Jesus was saying there.

Just as they don't truly understand what Jesus was saying here:
Matthew 12
46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” 48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50“For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

Or any number of other places.

Originally posted by divegeester
No you have downshifted into "hairdryer" mode, presumably in a vain attempt to throw me off of the scent of your plagiarism.

While you are giving attention to who wrote what, please notice that you quote sonship above but I never wrote "BLAAAAAAAAAAH ... etc".

Originally posted by sonship
BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

No, that was not originally posted by sonship.

Now who would ever dare to argue with anybody who uses phrases like "hairdryer" mode and "platitudes" ? Think what you wish.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
It's clear from the posts of many who participate on this forum that they don't truly understand what Jesus was saying there.

Just as they don't truly understand what Jesus was saying here:
Matthew 12
46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Be ...[text shortened]... her who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

Or any number of other places.

Christians understand what Jesus is saying here and in the dozens of other places where the same doctrine is repeated. They just dont like it and gravitate to doctrines which allow them to continue with their lives without having to change themselves.

Another good practice is to have two Bibles. One for making notes and underlines, marking up and highlighting your study. And another Bible which you do not mark up. That one is for prayerful reading and musing and meditating.

So you have a Bible for taking notes and study.
And you have a Bible simply for spontaneous spiritual refreshment.

This is balanced. Since it is our innate tendency to engage our intellects much, we need to balance that time with simply tasting the pure milk of the word of God. As Peter said that the word of God was milk for mourishment of the inner being and spiritual growth.

" As new born babes, long for the guileless milk of the word in order that by it you may grow unto salvation.

If you have tasted that the Lord is good. " (1 Pet. 2:2,3)

Growth in knowledge is one thing. Growth in spiritual life is another thing.
Both are needed.

We usually have more of a propensity to seek to gain knowledge. My experience is that one has to deliberately exercise the other part of our being to simple "taste" the Lord God.

So balance the time of study with tools of the Bible expositor with an equal amount of time to read for musing and meditation so as to taste the Spirit of God and be nourished inwardly.

See how David said that the word of God was like "honey" in his mouth?

" ... the judgments of Jehovah are truth and altogether righteous. More to be desired than gold;

Sweeter also than honey and the drippings of the honeycomb." (See Psalm 19:9b,10)

You study the Bible with tools lexicons and commentaries.
But you also balance that time with tasting the sweet nourishment of the Bible.

See? Someone has asked a question about a passage in Matthew about Jesus calling the crowds that listen to Him, his family.

So the balanced approach I recommend calls for a time to research that meaning.
But it also calls for a time to just take it in with a prayerful "Amen".

"Amen" stands for no resistance.
"Amen" stands for "So Be It".

Does this mean that you do not want to understand what was the meaning of Christ's words there? No. There is a time to research that and seek for a good interpretation of those words. And there is an equally valid time to read and say to God - 'Amen. So be it."

Please notice how Job found the words of God to be more precious to him then his apportionment of physical food.

" As for the commandment of His lips, I have not turned back from it;

I have treasured the words of His mouth more than my apportioned food." (Job 23:12)

Job was very learned. And his three friends were also world-class intellectuals. But he also "ate" the words of God which he regarded as more important than breakfast, lunch, and dinner."

No, I did not say "Don't eat. Read the Bible instead." Some may be eager to twist my words. I simply point out how precious the words of God were to the patriarch - like his daily physical food.

Jeremiah also said that he found God's words.... and ATE them -

" Your words were found and I ate them, And Your word became to me the gladness and joy of my heart." (Jer. 15:16)

So you read for pure study.
But you balance that time with a time to read for the joy that the word of God gives to the heart.

Originally posted by sonship
See? Someone has asked a question about a passage in [b]Matthew about Jesus calling the crowds that listen to Him, his family.

So the balanced approach I recommend calls for a time to research that meaning.
But it also calls for a time to just take it in with a prayerful "Amen".

"Amen" stands for no resistance.
"Amen" stands f ...[text shortened]... t you balance that time with a time to read for the joy that the word of God gives to the heart.[/b]

Intellectuals who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God
Non-intellectuals who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Constant Bible readers who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Occasional Bible readers who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Amercans who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Jews who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Chinese who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Africans who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Men who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Women who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Those who have the law who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Those with no law who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.

Following Christ commandments, and not Bible reading is what gets you into the Kingdom of God.

Originally posted by sonship
Think what you wish.

Not think, it's a fact.

Originally posted by divegeester
Not think, it's a fact.

Still no specific example given by you.
Still only a vague generality.

Are you sore and just want to draw attention away from your feeble ineptitude to defend your Modalism ?

Originally posted by sonship
Still no specific example given by you.
Still only a vague generality.

Are you sore and just want to draw attention away from your feeble ineptitude to defend your Modalism ?

You've already admitted in the "two views of human government" that you reword other people's messages. I know you try to bury this stuff with your copious mamouth posts 😉

Come on don't pretend that you had forgotten...

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christians understand what Jesus is saying here and in the dozens of other places where the same doctrine is repeated. They just dont like it and gravitate to doctrines which allow them to continue with their lives without having to change themselves.

You assume far, far too much, probably to cover your own hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Intellectuals who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God
Non-intellectuals who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Constant Bible readers who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdom of God.
Occasional Bible readers who follow the commandments of Christ will get into the Kingdo ...[text shortened]...
Following Christ commandments, and not Bible reading is what gets you into the Kingdom of God.

More hypocrisy from one who has just as much trouble "following Christ's commandments" as those he chastises.