1. Felicific Forest
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    07 Oct '05 13:33
    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PWG.HTM

    Mark 14

    32 Then they came to a place named Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples, "Sit here while I pray."

    33 He took with him Peter, James, and John, and began to be troubled and distressed.

    34 Then he said to them, "My soul is sorrowful even to death. Remain here and keep watch."

    35 He advanced a little and fell to the ground and prayed that if it were possible the hour might pass by him;

    36 he said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible to you. Take this cup away from me, but not what I will but what you will."
  2. Standard memberJoe Fist
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    07 Oct '05 13:58
    Originally posted by Nicolaas
    You guys are very nice to BF101.

    Its nice to see that you dont swear him etc etc etc for what he beliefs in.

    I fear death, but I dont fear the judgement day. My reason that I fear death is almost the same reason as everybody else here.

    Even though sometimes I get a little "excited" (in an angry way), I believe that God will forgive me my sins.
    Hey Nic,

    Maybe you ought to check your facts first or at least the most of the threads BF101 creates:

    I can paraphrase almost everyone of his threads right here:

    THE WORD OF GOD IS THE WORD OF GOD AND I AM A CHRISTIAN. IF YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN YOU ARE DAMNED AND GOING TO HELL

    Moldy Crow said it best. Do you understand that most non-Christians do not have any sort of issue with Christianity? I imagine most probably could careless. We have issue with BF101 because he is a jerk. If BF101 were an atheist and he created threads such as IT IS STUPID TO BELIEVE IN GOD AND IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD YOU ARE A LOSER over and over again, I imagine he would be equally ridiculed. While there are threads like I just said it is in reaction to the condemnation BF101 displays in all of his threads.

    Do you understand that telling a person they are going to Hell is an insult? Many times we tell a person to go to Hell because we are upset with them. So basically some Christians like BF101 believes a person is going to Hell because they have a different take on the world? So to BF101....GO TO HELL and hopefully I will see you there.
  3. London
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    07 Oct '05 14:12
    Originally posted by Joe Fist
    Hey Nic,

    Maybe you ought to check your facts first or at least the most of the threads BF101 creates:

    I can paraphrase almost everyone of his threads right here:

    THE WORD OF GOD IS THE WORD OF GOD AND I AM A CHRISTIAN. IF YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN YOU ARE DAMNED AND GOING TO HELL

    Moldy Crow said it best. Do you understand that most non-Christian ...[text shortened]... ve a different take on the world? So to BF101....GO TO HELL and hopefully I will see you there.
    If BF101 were an atheist and he created threads such as IT IS STUPID TO BELIEVE IN GOD AND IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD YOU ARE A LOSER over and over again, I imagine he would be equally ridiculed.

    Would he?

    howardgee has started at least three threads that meet those criteria and I have yet to see him ridiculed. frogstomp spams every thread about Catholicism with irrelevant posts about the Gnostics, Bruno or Pius XII/Hitler and I have yet to see him ridiculed (by the atheists on this forum, that is).
  4. Standard memberJoe Fist
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    07 Oct '05 14:25
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    [b]If BF101 were an atheist and he created threads such as IT IS STUPID TO BELIEVE IN GOD AND IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD YOU ARE A LOSER over and over again, I imagine he would be equally ridiculed.

    Would he?

    howardgee has started at least three threads that meet those criteria and I have yet to see him ridiculed. frogstomp spams every thread ab ...[text shortened]... or Pius XII/Hitler and I have yet to see him ridiculed (by the atheists on this forum, that is).[/b]
    Again, and I will grant you that I have not thoroughly checked the history on this and there is a possibility that I am mistaken, I believe that the threads you speak of are reactionary to the ones I have mentioned. Does it make them right? No it does not but, and I will only speak for me in this instance, my responses have always been in reaction to when a person of faith has condemned me (Agnostic) for not sharing their belief. I mean that to me doesn't even come down to having a faith but just plain common politeness.

    So am I correct in assuming you are Christian? If so, do you feel BF101 is appropriate and considerate of others who do not share his faith? I have had enjoyable conversations with Christian folk here on this site who maybe feel deep down I am going to Hell for my lack of belief but they have respect for how I feel to not express that in such a negative way. And, in kind, I try my best not to offend those who I can carry on those type of conversations with.
  5. Joined
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    07 Oct '05 14:27
    Originally posted by Joe Fist
    Hey Nic,

    Maybe you ought to check your facts first or at least the most of the threads BF101 creates:

    I can paraphrase almost everyone of his threads right here:

    THE WORD OF GOD IS THE WORD OF GOD AND I AM A CHRISTIAN. IF YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN YOU ARE DAMNED AND GOING TO HELL

    Moldy Crow said it best. Do you understand that most non-Christian ...[text shortened]... ve a different take on the world? So to BF101....GO TO HELL and hopefully I will see you there.
    I totally understand.

    It is an insult if you tell someone he is going to hell. The problem is, (and I actually wouldnt call it a problem), is that there are people, and trust me, alot that non-Christians and Christians that cannot "sit down" and just talk about what I believe and what you believe.

    Everyone gets excited and at the end of the day it is the Christians fault that a non-Christian doesnt believe in God anymore. And then again, it is the non-Christians fault too as some of them get very very rude towards us along the way. I think what needs to happen is that we should talk like adults and not like children. By being patient towards another could mean that we can learn from others and others learn from us.

    Well, this my point of view, and I am quilty to this as well. I do sometimes get alittle excited and then KABOOM!!!!

    I am sorry about that and apologise to everybody if I have ever offended you in any way. I do take and give critism and if that was also not called for, I am sorry for that too.


    Anyway, how about a game of chess? You game?

    I just created one... hehe
  6. London
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    07 Oct '05 15:01
    Originally posted by Joe Fist
    Again, and I will grant you that I have not thoroughly checked the history on this and there is a possibility that I am mistaken, I believe that the threads you speak of are reactionary to the ones I have mentioned. Does it make them right? No it does not but, and I will only speak for me in this instance, my responses have always been in reaction to when ...[text shortened]... in kind, I try my best not to offend those who I can carry on those type of conversations with.
    Strangely enough, I just looked through the first three pages of Spirituality threads - and this is the only one started by bf101.

    You're right - I am Christian. I think bf101 tries to make some reasonable points, but his language comes out accusatory at times - and that is only going to do more harm than good to his cause. I'm not convinced it is malicious - I think he genuinely wants every person to achieve eternal happiness and is trying the best he can to lead them to it. Only problem is - his best needs a lot of work.
  7. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    07 Oct '05 15:051 edit
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    [b]If BF101 were an atheist and he created threads such as IT IS STUPID TO BELIEVE IN GOD AND IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD YOU ARE A LOSER over and over again, I imagine he would be equally ridiculed.

    Would he?

    howardgee has started at least three threads that meet those criteria and I have yet to see him ridiculed. frogstomp spams every thread ab ...[text shortened]... or Pius XII/Hitler and I have yet to see him ridiculed (by the atheists on this forum, that is).[/b]
    Bruno lives forever, that pious papa that burnt him lives forever in the infamy of the forgotten and useless, excepting by the RCC, that is.
  8. London
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    07 Oct '05 15:10
    Originally posted by frogstomp
    Bruno lives forever, that pious papa that burnt him lives forever in the infamy of the forgotten and useless, excepting by the RCC, that is.
    LOL. Thanks for that.
  9. Standard memberJoe Fist
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    07 Oct '05 15:40
    Originally posted by Nicolaas
    I totally understand.

    It is an insult if you tell someone he is going to hell. The problem is, (and I actually wouldnt call it a problem), is that there are people, and trust me, alot that non-Christians and Christians that cannot "sit down" and just talk about what I believe and what you believe.

    Everyone gets excited and at the end of the day it i ...[text shortened]... ry for that too.


    Anyway, how about a game of chess? You game?

    I just created one... hehe
    It is an insult if you tell someone he is going to hell. The problem is, (and I actually wouldnt call it a problem), is that there are people, and trust me, alot that non-Christians and Christians that cannot "sit down" and just talk about what I believe and what you believe.

    Well I think it turns into a problem if I tell you that you are wrong for what you believe in and vice-versa. As an Agnostic, I have no way to prove and no interest is trying to prove to you that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God. Without trying to make a blanket statement, it is my understanding that a part of Christianity is to try and have people come to Christ which I think in itself is a noble endeavor. But I have found that however noble some Christians are in this attempt it gets too close to fanatisism and as many have read here, it drives non-
    Christians to resorting to insults.

    Everyone gets excited and at the end of the day it is the Christians fault that a non-Christian doesnt believe in God anymore. And then again, it is the non-Christians fault too as some of them get very very rude towards us along the way. I think what needs to happen is that we should talk like adults and not like children. By being patient towards another could mean that we can learn from others and others learn from us.

    I don't think it is anyone's fault per se but more so the nature of these discussions. The non-Christian doesn't necessarily believe in God anymore but perhaps not Jesus Christ? Even so I don't think it is the responsibility of Christians to try and convert the masses but that is just my belief. I agree that if this subject was approached from the point of conversation as adults without the threat of condemnation on either side we would go alot farther.

    I am sorry about that and apologise to everybody if I have ever offended you in any way. I do take and give critism and if that was also not called for, I am sorry for that too.

    Thank you and I accept. I, as well, apologize to those who I have offended in the past unjustly. We all tend to get a bit defensive for what we hold dear to us.

    Anyway, how about a game of chess? You game?

    I just created one... hehe


    Sure. I am a lowly 1160 something but I would be happy to 🙂
  10. Standard memberJoe Fist
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    07 Oct '05 15:48
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Strangely enough, I just looked through the first three pages of Spirituality threads - and this is the only one started by bf101.

    You're right - I am Christian. I think bf101 tries to make some reasonable points, but his language comes out accusatory at times - and that is only going to do more harm than good to his cause. I'm not convinced it i ...[text shortened]... nd is trying the best he can to lead them to it. Only problem is - his best needs a lot of work.
    Strangely enough, I just looked through the first three pages of Spirituality threads - and this is the only one started by bf101.

    Please LH. You have been a member on this site longer than I have and are you saying that BF101 has not been the author of such threads? Before there was a Spirituality forum? Maybe currently he has not posted as much but there have been countless THE WORD OF GOD threads he has started.

    You're right - I am Christian. I think bf101 tries to make some reasonable points, but his language comes out accusatory at times - and that is only going to do more harm than good to his cause. I'm not convinced it is malicious - I think he genuinely wants every person to achieve eternal happiness and is trying the best he can to lead them to it. Only problem is - his best needs a lot of work.

    Well let me say that as much as I don't care for BF101 I do believe he is attempting to be earnest in converting us non-Christians to Christ. I don't think it is his intent to be malicious either but, as you so correctly put it, "his best does need a lot of work".
  11. Joined
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    15 Oct '05 15:29
    Originally posted by Joe Fist
    Again you are quite right. I know a great many Christians both here on this site and beyond that don't agree with BF101.
    That is very true! There are many that do not believe as I do. With out question. There many that differ in the message, and how it is worded or the way I Cap. certain words. No doubt. But... THE WORD OF GOD stands true. There are those of you that focas on me. What I do or what i do not do. I cannot place or send anyone to heaven or hell. All I can do is warn you, and myself the best that I can. The only one that I have to answer to is GOD above.When HE judges my rights and wrongs, HIS WORD will still be right.
  12. Standard memberthesonofsaul
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    15 Oct '05 17:15
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    Why? If one does not fear or believe in GOD. Why should there be any fear? If you die and that is all there is. Why be afraid. Unless deep down within youself, you are not really convinced that there is no GOD.
    I'm just jumping into this thread without reading more than the first few posts, so if I am reiterating something, I beg the forgiveness of all.

    This statement seems to me a perfect example of the false dilemma fallacy. We are given two choices by bf101, either fear death and admit God or deny God and therefore be free of fear. It is almost identical to the classic example, "you are either for me or against me," an example that we all know to be false--there are always more than two sides.

    Now, my trusty manual on fallacies tells me that the best way to prove a false dilemma is to supply another answer that fits the problem, so here it goes. By bf101's argument, we have belief in God if and only if there is an afterlife, which of course is not true. One can certainly consider an afterlife without God, and the afterlife is characteristically full of unknowns. As Hamlet phrases it is "the Undiscovered Country." It is not unreasonable to fear the unknown, therefore you can fear death (and the afterlife) without belief in God. It seems simple. Sheesh, I wish they taught this stuff in school instead of all the gobledy-gook they do. Then maybe we could generate some actual thinking beings on this planet, instead of the typical gullible mass that is always being tricked by the same fallacies over and over again.

    And bf101, this is not an attack on your beliefs (I am a theist as well) only your arguing and communication skills.
  13. R
    Standard memberRemoved
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    15 Oct '05 17:41
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    then there should be no fear for dying
    Yes there is because then I won't be able to play chess.
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