1. Shetland Primary
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    18 May '05 09:13
    There have been hundreds of books written on the subject of the evidences of the divine inspiration of the Bible, and these evidences are many and varied. Most people today, unfortunately, have not read any of these books. In fact, few have even read the Bible itself! Thus, many people tend to go along with the popular delusion that the Bible is full of mistakes and is no longer relevant to our modern world.
    Nevertheless the Bible writers claimed repeatedly that they were transmitting the very Word of God, infallible and authoritative in the highest degree. This is an amazing thing for any writer to say, and if the forty or so men who wrote the Scriptures were wrong in these claims, then they must have been lying, or insane, or both.

    But, on the other hand, if the greatest and most influential book of the ages, containing the most beautiful literature and the most perfect moral code ever devised, was written by deceiving fanatics, then what hope is there for ever finding meaning and purpose in this world?

    If one will seriously investigate these Biblical evidences, he will find that their claims of divine inspiration (stated over 3,000 times, in various ways) were amply justified.

    Fulfilled Prophecies

    The remarkable evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away.

    For example, Daniel the prophet predicted in about 538 BC (Daniel 9:24-27) that Christ would come as Israel's promised Savior and Prince 483 years after the Persian emperor would give the Jews authority to rebuild Jerusalem, which was then in ruins. This was clearly and definitely fulfilled, hundreds of years later.

    There are extensive prophecies dealing with individual nations and cities and with the course of history in general, all of which have been literally fulfilled. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled by Christ Himself at His first coming. Other prophecies deal with the spread of Christianity, as well as various false religions, and many other subjects.

    There is no other book, ancient or modern, like this. The vague, and usually erroneous, prophecies of people like Jeanne Dixon, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and others like them are not in the same category at all, and neither are other religious books such as the Koran, the Confucian Analects, and similar religious writings. Only the Bible manifests this remarkable prophetic evidence, and it does so on such a tremendous scale as to render completely absurd any explanation other than divine revelation.

    Unique Historical Accuracy

    The historical accuracy of the Scriptures is likewise in a class by itself, far superior to the written records of Egypt, Assyria, and other early nations. Archeological confirmations of the Biblical record have been almost innumerable in the last century. Dr. Nelson Glueck, probably the greatest modern authority on Israeli archeology, has said:

    "No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."

    Scientific Accuracy

    Another striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:

    Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
    Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
    Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
    Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
    Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)
    Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)
    Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)
    Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)
    Gravitational field (Job 26:7)
    and many others.

    These are not stated in the technical jargon of modern science, of course, but in terms of the basic world of man's everyday experience; nevertheless, they are completely in accord with the most modern scientific facts.

    It is significant also that no real mistake has ever been demonstrated in the Bible -- in science, in history, or in any other subject. Many have been claimed, of course, but conservative Bible scholars have always been able to work out reasonable solutions to all such problems.

    Unique Structure

    The remarkable structure of the Bible should also be stressed. Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.

    The individual writers, at the time of writing, had no idea that their message was eventually to be incorporated into such a Book, but each nevertheless fits perfectly into place and serves its own unique purpose as a component of the whole. Anyone who diligently studies the Bible will continually find remarkable structural and mathematical patterns woven throughout its fabric, with an intricacy and symmetry incapable of explanation by chance or collusion.

    The one consistent theme of the Bible, developing in grandeur from Genesis to Revelation, is God's great work in the creation and redemption of all things, through His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Bible's Unique Effect

    The Bible is unique also in terms of its effect on individual men and on the history of nations. It is the all-time best seller, appealing both to hearts and minds, beloved by at least some in every race or nation or tribe to which it has gone, rich or poor, scholar or simple, king or commoner, men of literally every background and walk of life. No other book has ever held such universal appeal nor produced such lasting effects.

    One final evidence that the Bible is true is found in the testimony of those who have believed it. Multitudes of people, past and present, have found from personal experience that its promises are true, its counsel is sound, its commands and restrictions are wise, and its wonderful message of salvation meets every need for both time and eternity.

    http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html
  2. Joined
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    18 May '05 10:20
    The Judeo-Christian Bible is an interesting book but not as outstanding as some Christian scholars strive to make it out to be. It is not the oldest religious scripture. The Egyptian Pyramid Texts and Papyrus of Ani, the Hindu-Vedic Rig Veda, Upanishads, Bhagavad-Gita, and Patanjali's Sutras, as well as the Buddhist Dhammapada, and the Taoist Tao Te Ching and the Chuang Tzu, just to name some, all are of equal age or predate the Old Testament, and all predate the New Testament.

    In terms of length, many of the Oriental scriptures dwarf the Bible.

    In terms of quality, the Vedic Upanishads alone are of much deeper metaphysical and philosophic substance, in the view of many religious scholars.

    In terms of literary quality, this is obviously a culturally subjective interpretation. The "Bhagavad Gita", the main holy book of Hinduism, literally means "The Song of God" and is pure poetry.

    In terms of prophecy, most Oriental religion regards psychic aspects such as prophecy to be the concern of inferior minds that still are immersed in the illusions of time. The future is irrelevant to spiritual realization. It is, however, of interest to politics, which is ultimately what prophecy serves.

    In terms of "divine authority", in Hinduism their main avatar Krishna is regarded as an direct incarnation of God. He is not the "Son", he is God himself. Therefore for the Hindu, Christianity is a "second generation" religious path because it is given by the "son of God", whereas Hinduism does not bother with the son, it has only God himself (Krishna).

    Buddhism regards itself as yet higher still, as it maintains that all gods (including God) reside within Samsara (the conditioned universe). In Buddhist doctrine the Buddha resides in Nirvana, which is beyond the universe and beyond God or gods.

    Muslims believe that Jesus was only one of a series of prophets, but he was not the last or most important. For them, that person was Mohammad. Further, the Koran explicitly states that Jesus was not even crucified, and that the "trinity" is a theological error.

    So as we can see most traditions have their own forms of chauvinism. Boasting about the superiority of a given scripture is doubtless irrelevant to one's personal search for truth, as it can all too easily be done for any given tradition within its own subjective context. This is why religious fundamentalism is limited and often useless in serving our legitimate inner growth. We had best get on with the business of our own personal spiritual development and leave fundamentalism to the politically inclined.
  3. London
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    18 May '05 10:59
    Originally posted by Metamorphosis
    The Judeo-Christian Bible is an interesting book but not as outstanding as some Christian scholars strive to make it out to be. It is not the oldest religious scripture. The Egyptian Pyramid Texts and Papyrus of Ani, the Hindu-Vedic Rig Veda, Upanishads, Bhagavad-Gita, and Patanjali's Sutras, as well as the Buddhist Dhammapada, and the Taoist Tao Te C ...[text shortened]... our own personal spiritual development and leave fundamentalism to the politically inclined.
    What do you make of the Prajapathi concept as advocated by Dr. Koshy Abraham and Aravindaksha Menon?
  4. Joined
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    18 May '05 11:41
    dj2, isn't it about time you stopped the practice of pasting other peoples works (I'm glad to see you referenced it) and then just sticking 'what do you think?' on the end, as a way of starting a thread? Perhaps if you explained your standpoint in your own words and then maybe included a quote or reference and put forth a premise for debate, people would be more inclined to discuss. I for one am quite able to follow a link for background reading if you provide it as backup for your view. Posting it on its own just makes it a replication of other people's views. It would also stop questions like that of L'sHammer showing you up.
  5. Shetland Primary
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    18 May '05 11:43
    Originally posted by Metamorphosis
    The Judeo-Christian Bible is an interesting book but not as outstanding as some Christian scholars strive to make it out to be. It is not the oldest religious scripture. The Egyptian Pyramid Texts and Papyrus of Ani, the Hindu-Vedic Rig Veda, Upanishads, Bhagavad-Gita, and Patanjali's Sutras, as well as the Buddhist Dhammapada, and the Taoist Tao Te C ...[text shortened]... our own personal spiritual development and leave fundamentalism to the politically inclined.
    In all the writings of Buddha, Confusius, and Loa-tse, you will not find a single example of predicted prophecy. In the Koran there is one instance of specific prophecy- a self-fulfilling prophecy- that he, Muhammed himself, would return to Mecca. Quite different from the prophecy of Jesus who said that he would return from the grave. One is easily fulfilled, and the other is impossible to any human being.
  6. London
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    18 May '05 11:55
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    In all the writings of Buddha, Confusius, and Loa-tse, you will not find a single example of predicted prophecy. In the Koran there is one instance of specific prophecy- a self-fulfilling prophecy- that he, Muhammed himself, would return to Mecca. Quite different from the prophecy of Jesus who said that he would return from the grave. One is easily fulfilled, and the other is impossible to any human being.
    You might want to check this article out:

    http://www.insearchofpeace.org/3v17issue.htm#2
  7. Shetland Primary
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    18 May '05 12:07
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    You might want to check this article out:

    http://www.insearchofpeace.org/3v17issue.htm#2
    Very interesting. Even more interesting that it should point towards Christ and the Bible.
  8. Joined
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    18 May '05 23:37
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    In all the writings of Buddha, Confusius, and Loa-tse, you will not find a single example of predicted prophecy. In the Koran there is one instance of specific prophecy- a self-fulfilling prophecy- that he, Muhammed himself, would return to Mecca. Quite different from the prophecy of Jesus who said that he would return from the grave. One is easily fulfilled, and the other is impossible to any human being.
    You apparently missed this paragraph of mine from my above post...

    In terms of prophecy, most Oriental religion regards psychic aspects such as prophecy to be the concern of inferior minds that still are immersed in the illusions of time. The future is irrelevant to spiritual realization. It is, however, of interest to politics, which is ultimately what prophecy serves.

    As for Jeus returning in corporeal form, even if we assume that he really said this and was not misinterpreted, the problem remains as to how you (or anyone) will recognize him. It is difficult to see beyond what you are, that is, a person's projections, expectations, beliefs, and so forth, tend to shape his perceptions of reality. If you expect a Jesus to return who would look a certain way, and duly fulfill the image of fundamentalist believers in terms of his condemnations of other religions, etc., then you almost certainly would be greivously mistaken, and thus you would in all likelihood condemn this "returned Jesus" as a trick of Satan or Industrial Light and Magic when he did not toe the fundamentalist line -- exactly as he did not when he was here two thousand years ago.

    A simple question for you -- what would your reaction be if Jesus came back in the body of, say, a 4 foot 10 inch Japanese woman?

    No need to answer that question, but you might want to take a look at how your mind reacts to it. It may reveal any parts of you that are attached to the form of spirituality. This is precisely the crux of the problem with fundamentalism, being the attachment to word, form, and doctrine, and the immediate tendency to condemn that which assumes a different form.
  9. Joined
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    18 May '05 23:59
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    There have been hundreds of books written on the subject of the evidences of the divine inspiration of the Bible, and these evidences are many and varied. Most people today, unfortunately, have not read any of these books. In fact, few have even read the Bible itself! Thus, many people tend to go along with the popular delusion that the Bible is full of mi ...[text shortened]... eets every need for both time and eternity.

    http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html
    goo...

    i find your evidence less than convincing.

    i don't think you can satisfactorily get around the fact that your belief in the accuracy of the bible is ultimately based on your faith, not proof. i find it frustrating when you ignore this and present your views as undeniable truth.

    i respect your opinions and do not disagree completely, but i maintain that they are only opinions and refuse to accept your post as positive proof.
  10. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    19 May '05 00:50
    Originally posted by Metamorphosis
    You apparently missed this paragraph of mine from my above post...

    [b]In terms of prophecy, most Oriental religion regards psychic aspects such as prophecy to be the concern of inferior minds that still are immersed in the illusions of time. The future is irrelevant to spiritual realization. It is, however, of interest to politics, which is ultimate ...[text shortened]... , form, and doctrine, and the immediate tendency to condemn that which assumes a different form.
    Splash
  11. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    19 May '05 01:29
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    There have been hundreds of books written on the subject of the evidences of the divine inspiration of the Bible, and these evidences are many and varied. Most people today, unfortunately, have not read any of these books. In fact, few have even read the Bible itself! Thus, many people tend to go along with the popular delusion that the Bible is full of mi ...[text shortened]... eets every need for both time and eternity.

    http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html
    Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22) circle isn't a sphere
    Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9) that came from Sumerian mythology
    Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7) not even a bad metaphor for what you claim
    Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7 ) big deal
    Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22) host huh?
    Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27) not even close
    Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11) the proper way to prepare meat as food?
    Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6) another big deal
    Gravitational field (Job 26:7) He's a field?
  12. Standard memberNemesio
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    19 May '05 02:49
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    In all the writings of Buddha, Confusius, and Loa-tse, you will not find a single example of predicted prophecy. In the Koran there is one instance of specific prophecy- a self-fulfilling prophecy- that he, Muhammed himself, would return to Mecca. Quite different from the prophecy of Jesus who said that he would return from the grave. One is easily fulfilled, and the other is impossible to any human being.
    The whole 'prophecy' angle is absurd, anyway. Most prophecies are sufficiently vague that
    a host of circumestances would fulfill them. Or, in the case of St Matthew, any particular event
    can be 'reinterpretted' midrashically in order to fulfill a prophetic claim (Jesus's garment not torn
    in two, for example).

    St Paul predicted the parousia in short order, but that didn't come true. How about we focus on
    the failed prophesies? ... I know, because they haven't come true...YET.

    Blah. When I see a Christian loving his/her poor neighbor with infinite compassion, then I'll listen
    to what s/he has to say. Regurgitating nonsensical, brainless, and meaningless posts like this one
    without some substantive demonstration of living faith is an abomination of Christianity.

    Nemesio
  13. London
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    19 May '05 13:01
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Blah. When I see a Christian loving his/her poor neighbor with infinite compassion, then I'll listen
    to what s/he has to say. Regurgitating nonsensical, brainless, and meaningless posts like this one
    without some substantive demonstration of living faith is an abomination of Christianity.

    Nemesio
    I think that's a bit unfair.

    1. A person's personal circumstances have no bearing on the validity of his/her arguments - unless he is (explicitly or implicitly) citing himself as an authority on a particular subject.

    2. How is someone supposed to substantively demonstrate their living faith (in Christianity) on an Internet forum? You certainly cannot expect dj2 to demonstrate that he practises charity, or volunteers at the local hospital etc. here. The best you can expect is honesty and politeness - and dj2 has exhibited both of those (certainly more than I have).
  14. Standard memberNemesio
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    19 May '05 14:33
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    I think that's a bit unfair.

    1. A person's personal circumstances have no bearing on the validity of his/her arguments - unless he is (explicitly or implicitly) citing himself as an authority on a particular subject.

    2. How is someone supposed to substantively demonstrate their living faith (in Christianity) on an Internet forum? You certainly ...[text shortened]... ct is honesty and politeness - and dj2 has exhibited both of those (certainly more than I have).
    When DJ emphasizes essential Christian duty rather than implicitly condemning all
    other people (including you, as a 'heretic, Mary-bowing' Roman Catholic!) to eternity in
    hell-fire, you will find I will have a much more sympathetic ear.

    Jesus broke it down pretty plainly in St Matthew 25, yet DJ and other 'so-called Christians'
    never bring it up. Being a servant of those in any kind of need is the essential expression
    of Christian faith.

    If he wants to post about how his 'church' built a new home for the needy in his area, I will
    be the first to praise him and them.

    Nemesio
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    26 May '05 01:03
    Originally posted by Metamorphosis
    It is not the oldest religious scripture. The Egyptian Pyramid Texts and Papyrus of Ani, the Hindu-Vedic Rig Veda, Upanishads, Bhagavad-Gita, and Patanjali's Sutras, as well as the Buddhist Dhammapada, and the Taoist Tao Te Ching and the Chuang Tzu, just to name some, all are of equal age or predate the Old Testament, and all predate the New Testament.
    But they are not sound religions.
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