1. Joined
    29 Jan '07
    Moves
    3612
    01 Apr '07 15:321 edit
    a very religious woman - who has followed the teachings of christ all her life - has a son who grows up to be very evil. one day the woman and her son die in a car crash. the woman is granted access into heaven for eternity but her son is turned away; the woman says to god, "i love my son with all my heart, please allow him in. i could never be happy here knowing my son was in hell"....

    question: what does god do?
  2. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    Tha Brotha Hood
    Joined
    13 Dec '04
    Moves
    49088
    01 Apr '07 15:372 edits
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    a very religious woman - who has followed the teachings of christ all her life - has a son who grows up to be very evil. one day the woman and her son die in a car crash. the woman is granted access into heaven for eternity but her son is turned away; the woman says to god, "i love my son with all my heart, please allow him in. i could never be happy here knowing my son was in hell"....

    question: what does god do?
    According to the Standard Model, he says, "Tough [doodoo]. I could never be happy with your son in heaven."
  3. Joined
    29 Jan '07
    Moves
    3612
    01 Apr '07 15:43
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    According to the Standard Model, he says, "Tough [doodoo]. [b]I could never be happy with your son in heaven."[/b]
    that's my god, very compassionate
  4. Standard membersven1000
    Astrophysicist
    Outer Space
    Joined
    05 Apr '06
    Moves
    46548
    01 Apr '07 16:22
    But God says, "Love ME with all your heart, all your mind, all your body and all your soul."
  5. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    01 Apr '07 18:051 edit
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    a very religious woman - who has followed the teachings of christ all her life - has a son who grows up to be very evil. one day the woman and her son die in a car crash. the woman is granted access into heaven for eternity but her son is turned away; the woman says to god, "i love my son with all my heart, please allow him in. i could never be happy here knowing my son was in hell"....

    question: what does god do?
    God might respond by saying " I have tried everything I know to get your son to turn to me but he will not let me in. His heart has become darkened and I cannot reach him without violating his free will. The key to his destiny is inside the door of his heart where I decided it should be placed. I cannot turn it for him. I am as helpless as you are. His evil is not a problem. I have dealt with it. I have forgiven him but he will not receive my forgiveness. His pride prevents him from humbling himself. If he doesn't want to that's his choice , and although my heart yearns for him to be here with me , even more than yours does , I have to respect this. This is the agony of love. When you weep for your son I weep alongside you. "
  6. Joined
    12 Jun '05
    Moves
    14671
    01 Apr '07 18:06
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    God might respond by saying " I have tried everything I know to get your son to turn to me but he will not let me in. His heart has become darkened and I cannot reach him without violating his free will. The key to his destiny is inside the door of his heart where I decided it should be placed. I cannot turn it for him. I am as helpless as you are. His ...[text shortened]... respect this. This is the agony of love. When you weep for your son I weep alongside you. "
    What a crock.
  7. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    01 Apr '07 18:11
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    a very religious woman - who has followed the teachings of christ all her life - has a son who grows up to be very evil. one day the woman and her son die in a car crash. the woman is granted access into heaven for eternity but her son is turned away; the woman says to god, "i love my son with all my heart, please allow him in. i could never be happy here knowing my son was in hell"....

    question: what does god do?
    How about, "If you love your son more than me then go be with your son."
  8. Territories Unknown
    Joined
    05 Dec '05
    Moves
    20408
    01 Apr '07 19:36
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    a very religious woman - who has followed the teachings of christ all her life - has a son who grows up to be very evil. one day the woman and her son die in a car crash. the woman is granted access into heaven for eternity but her son is turned away; the woman says to god, "i love my son with all my heart, please allow him in. i could never be happy here knowing my son was in hell"....

    question: what does god do?
    It depends: who was driving?
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39559
    01 Apr '07 19:40
    Originally posted by whodey
    How about, "If you love your son more than me then go be with your son."
    Your God is apparently pretty needy; that response sounds more like a teenager craving attention than a 3 O entity.
  10. Joined
    29 Jan '07
    Moves
    3612
    01 Apr '07 19:49
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    It depends: who was driving?
    does it matter?
  11. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    Tha Brotha Hood
    Joined
    13 Dec '04
    Moves
    49088
    01 Apr '07 19:54
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    The key to his destiny is inside the door of his heart where I decided it should be placed. I cannot turn it for him.
    Do people in hell have the option to repent and go to heaven?
  12. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
    19 Jan '04
    Moves
    22131
    01 Apr '07 19:571 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    How about, "If you love your son more than me then go be with your son."
    How about: “If you love your son, that is the same as loving me—since I am the love itself”?

    > NRS 1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God... 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us... 16 God is love, and those who abide in love abide in God, and God abides in them.

    > NRS Matthew 22:37 He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And a second is like (omoia) it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

    omoia means of the same nature or kind as, of equal value or power, the same as... It is an adjective modifying “a second”—i.e., the second commandment itself.

    Therefore, I think it can be read as “just like” or “the same as.”

    EDIT: Or perhaps, the mother is showing the same kind of love as described in John 15:13—

    > NRS John 15:13 No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life (psuche) for one's friends.

    Now, psuche is most often translated as “soul.” It means one’s innermost self or being. The word for physical life is zoë. And tithemi (here, “lay down” ) means to put or place (or “lay” more in the sense of “to lay the table” ).
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39559
    01 Apr '07 20:16
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Do people in hell have the option to repent and go to heaven?
    Nope, for some unexplained reason, eternal God bases his judgement for your eternal fate on the basis of your limited time on Earth. I've never heard any coherent reason why he should do so.
  14. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
    19 Jan '04
    Moves
    22131
    01 Apr '07 20:23
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Do people in hell have the option to repent and go to heaven?
    According to some in the Greek Orthodox Church (and early church writers), residence in hell is not permanent...
  15. Territories Unknown
    Joined
    05 Dec '05
    Moves
    20408
    01 Apr '07 20:25
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    It depends: who was driving?
    I say that it matters just as much as the rest of your scenario. You say the woman was a religious person who followed the teachings of Jesus. Does that mean your woman simply adhered to a set of rules, or does it mean that she actually did what Christ commanded, i.e., trusted in Him for her salvation instead of herself?

    The distinction is relevant because the person who trusts in the Christ's work for salvation has at least ascended to one level of understanding with respect to the spiritual life: everyone makes their own decisions before God.

    Your scenario infers that her love for her son ought to be the issue. It is not. The issue in salvation is Christ, not the love of a mother for her child, the sacrifice of a man for his country or any other equally important demonstration of human love. Christ and Christ alone. If this woman were truly saved, the love of Christ would have been compelling her daily to do everything possible to convince her son of His love, not hers.

    Had that been her burden, then at the end of his opportunities, she would have absolutely no compunction in seeing her son realize his desired destination. Where else but out of God's presence would he have been happy?
Back to Top