Originally posted by googlefudge
presuming he exists.

ether god has always existed.
Or god has a beginning.

If god has a beginning you have to ask , what caused god.
Which means you have just shifted the problem of first cause to god, not solved it with god.

If god has no beginning but is eternal, then you have to wonder what he was doing for the eternity of time before creat ...[text shortened]... ie and suddenly create the universe.



And the universe doesn't count as evidence for god.

It is proof to me because I have faith that God did it. Man certainly
did not do it. Man also did not create himself. How foolish to think
otherwise. This is what Dasa is referring to and he is absolutely right
and you are showing how foolish you are. Enough said, I must eat
my supper before it gets cold.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is proof to me because I have faith that God did it. Man certainly
did not do it. Man also did not create himself. How foolish to think
otherwise. This is what Dasa is referring to and he is absolutely right
and you are showing how foolish you are. Enough said, I must eat
my supper before it gets cold.

Hope you not eating meat ...

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is proof to me because I have faith that God did it. Man certainly
did not do it. Man also did not create himself. How foolish to think
otherwise. This is what Dasa is referring to and he is absolutely right
and you are showing how foolish you are. Enough said, I must eat
my supper before it gets cold.

You can't resist straw man arguments.

Please do tell me where I said that humans created the universe or themselves.

Humans evolved along with all the other creatures on the planet.

And the universe does not require or imply a creator.

It might have one, but there is not one required or implied by the simple fact of it's existence.

And you say it's proof to you because you have faith god did it.
That's a circular argument.
The place you get on it is your 'personal experience' of god, that convinces you he exists.
However as I have said before I (and no one other than you) can consider that evidence.
And unless you can justify one of the statements in a circular argument with external
justification then its circularity is its downfall.


EDIT: and you completely avoided talking about the points I did make in the post.
You are not going to be able to make convincing arguments if you transparently ignore
what is actually said and instead reply to something that was only said in your imagination.

Originally posted by Suzianne
How much must you miss the point if you ask for proof?


Faith > proof, but proof denies faith. That is why there is no proof.

If you had proof, would you still not believe?

Free will is important in establishing responsibility for your own beliefs, or lack of them.

If you had proof, your free will would be a sham.

I'm not asking for something others have not received. I want God to actually speak to me like he did Moses...or Abraham....or be able to stick my fingers in a dead mans wound to see that he is risen. I don't have the benefit of seeing a man wave his hand to heal a leper....or get to see a couple fish feed thousands..... this is the kind of proof I want...

Those apostles had it made if they were seeing all these things on a daily basis....

Originally posted by Suzianne
How much must you miss the point if you ask for proof?


Faith > proof, but proof denies faith. That is why there is no proof.

If you had proof, would you still not believe?

Free will is important in establishing responsibility for your own beliefs, or lack of them.

If you had proof, your free will would be a sham.

Bull. I have proof of a lot of things. I still have the choice as to whether to believe them or not.
Proof of god's existence would not remove my ability to chose whether or not to worship him.

I don't miss the point.
I understand that the basis of your religion is faith.
This is one of the main things I reject about it.

What you believe is important, for it defines how you think about and understand the world.

If your beliefs are wrong then you are likely to make faulty decisions based on those beliefs.

Simply having faith that your beliefs is right with no supporting evidence or reason is not good enough.

Proof removes the need for faith.
Proof is better than faith.



If I had proof that god existed than I would believe he existed.

I would not worship him, for if he exists he's an evil tyrant, and I have no time for those.

Speaking of which you still haven't responded further to my pointing out your bible instructs
women to be forced to marry their rapists.

Having objected to this and asking me to quote chapter and verse (which I did) you then
utterly failed to say any more on the matter.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Hope you not eating meat ...

I am finished my supper. It was chicken parmesan with cooked carrots
and broccoli and a biscuit plus a diet Roor Beer to drink.

Originally posted by googlefudge
You can't resist straw man arguments.

Please do tell me where I said that humans created the universe or themselves.

Humans evolved along with all the other creatures on the planet.

And the universe does not require or imply a creator.

It might have one, but there is not one required or implied by the simple fact of it's existence.

And you ...[text shortened]... at is actually said and instead reply to something that was only said in your imagination.

You seem to want to ignore the creation aspect that supposedly started
this unprovable evolutionary process. Maybe, that is because it might
disprove evolution. I am glad that you do not admit saying that humans
created the universe for that would be a very stupid and ignorant thing
to say. but to say that the universe does not require or imply a creator
is almost as stupid and ignorant. I am sorry i can not provide you with
a personal experience that will proof the existence of God to you, so I
guess you will just have to wait.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Bull. I have proof of a lot of things. I still have the choice as to whether to believe them or not.
Proof of god's existence would not remove my ability to chose whether or not to worship him.

I don't miss the point.
I understand that the basis of your religion is faith.
This is one of the main things I reject about it.

What you believe is imp ...[text shortened]... uote chapter and verse (which I did) you then
utterly failed to say any more on the matter.

You say, "I would not worship him, for if he exists he's an evil tyrant, and I
have no time for those."

So don't wonder why you are not given a personal experience that proves
God exists. You have the wrong attitude for that.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Oh goody an omni max god....

So can god make a rock so heavy even he can't lift it?

If he can, he can't be all powerful because he can't lift the rock.

If he can't he isn't all powerful because he can't make the rock.

Isn't logic a female dog.
;-p

Also if god is omni max then how did he create us with free will? Any way he created us he knew exactly what was going to happen hence we are doing nothing freely if an omni max god created us.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am finished my supper. It was chicken parmesan with cooked carrots
and broccoli and a biscuit plus a diet Roor Beer to drink.

This is one of your more interesting posts.

Keep up the good work.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Any discussion of a first cause always has the question of how do you explain the first cause.

God is particularly bad for this, as god is inherently inexplicable.

Which also means any 'explanation' that involves god is not an explanation, you just moved
the unexplained thing from one place to another.

Can scientists explain what happened before the ' Big Bang ' ? No, scientists deflect that question by stating that, by definition, Time started on the dot, along with the Big Bang. So there is no such thing as ' before ' the Big Bang. We Hindus believe that by definition, God is ' Swayambhu ' or self creator. Any objection ?

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am finished my supper. It was chicken parmesan with cooked carrots
and broccoli and a biscuit plus a diet Roor Beer to drink.

We had meat loaf, patty pan squash, asparagus, yams, asiago bread with olive oil, a bit of red wine and strawberries for dessert.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
This is one of your more interesting posts.

Keep up the good work.

Wolfgang, is your avatar a pea pizza?

Originally posted by JS357
We had meat loaf, patty pan squash, asparagus, yams, asiago bread with olive oil, a bit of red wine and strawberries for dessert.

I did not mean to start a food fight.

P.S.
The topic is about the foolish atheist.

Originally posted by Dasa
To say God does not exist is very foolish.

God is - first cause - power - intelligence - consciousness - awareness - creativeness - function - purpose - design - and a person.

A transcendental person one without a second - like no other.

A person because the effect cannot be greater than the cause.

To say their is no God is the same as saying all t ...[text shortened]... he scientific establishment is actually saying this.

How foolish and how dishonest they are..

Dominus ma in dictore astent in dictorum