1. Standard memberDasa
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    30 Sep '11 21:04
    To say God does not exist is very foolish.

    God is - first cause - power - intelligence - consciousness - awareness - creativeness - function - purpose - design - and a person.

    A transcendental person one without a second - like no other.

    A person because the effect cannot be greater than the cause.

    To say their is no God is the same as saying all that exist does so without the foundation of - cause - purpose - design - function - creativeness - intelligence -power.

    So it would sound like this.....

    All that exist comes from nothing..........or

    All that exist does not have intelligent foundations...........or

    All that exists has no foundation in intelligence - power - cause - creativeness - function - design or plan.

    That is so foolish.

    And the best that can be then offered is that - all that exists came from nothing - and then this nothing became something by way of an explosion and after that explosion conscious life, food, rain, sunshine, laws of physics and natural resources accidentally appeared.

    I want someone to explode something and then get something from it.

    The scientific establishment is actually saying this.

    How foolish and how dishonest they are..
  2. Joined
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    30 Sep '11 21:28
    Originally posted by Dasa
    How foolish it was of you to enter my thread thinking i was looking for a constructive conversation of the spiritual nature.
    Finally, something we agree on.
  3. Standard memberRJHinds
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    30 Sep '11 21:50
    Originally posted by Trev33
    Finally, something we agree on.
    Absolutely. Hallelu Yah!
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    30 Sep '11 21:55
    the only problem with god as first cause ...is that you assume god has always been....I guess one might assume that something else..matter maybe ...has always been.
  5. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    30 Sep '11 22:04
    Originally posted by pete3246
    the only problem with god as first cause ...is that you assume god has always been....I guess one might assume that something else..matter maybe ...has always been.
    Matter???? Now why does matter make more sence than God? The only problem with matter is .... Is that you assume matter was there first. So what created matter? Aliens???

    See the argument here?
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    30 Sep '11 22:071 edit
    Im not saying it makes more sense....just that it makes as much sense...where did God come from?...who created God...aliens?
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    30 Sep '11 22:07
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    Matter???? Now why does matter make more sence than God? The only problem with matter is .... Is that you assume matter was there first. So what created matter? Aliens???

    See the argument here?
    Any discussion of a first cause always has the question of how do you explain the first cause.

    God is particularly bad for this, as god is inherently inexplicable.

    Which also means any 'explanation' that involves god is not an explanation, you just moved
    the unexplained thing from one place to another.
  8. Standard memberDasa
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    30 Sep '11 22:391 edit
    Originally posted by pete3246
    Im not saying it makes more sense....just that it makes as much sense...where did God come from?...who created God...aliens?
    God is first cause - and therefore uncaused.

    God is inconceivable power.

    All power.

    Having all power God has the power to be first cause.

    We all can recognize power exists - so God is the source of that power.

    Nothing caused God.

    The fact that God is uncaused and all power is why he is God and worshipable.

    We are part of that power.

    We are spiritual entities and are eternally connected to that power.

    But in this material world it appears that we are separate from this power.

    We are not separate from this power......just forgetful of our true and factual transcendental position.

    This power is personified..............just like your body is personified from chemicals.

    Your body is just a heap of chemicals but because of the potency of the spiritual principle your individual soul- this bag of chemicals has become a personified object.

    First cause the power of everything is also personified as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.......Govinda, Vishnu. Jehovah, Allah, Krsna and an unlimited number of other names.

    First cause is absolutely - not nothing.

    Nothing produces nothing.
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    30 Sep '11 23:16
    Oh goody an omni max god....

    So can god make a rock so heavy even he can't lift it?

    If he can, he can't be all powerful because he can't lift the rock.

    If he can't he isn't all powerful because he can't make the rock.

    Isn't logic a female dog.
    ;-p
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    30 Sep '11 23:25
    Originally posted by pete3246
    the only problem with god as first cause ...is that you assume god has always been....I guess one might assume that something else..matter maybe ...has always been.
    You can assume anything you what, but all that does a make an

    ASS out of U and ME.

    We have proof God exists through the things He created. We do
    not have to assume that. There is no need to worry then about
    whether He always existed.
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    30 Sep '11 23:27
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Oh goody an omni max god....

    So can god make a rock so heavy even he can't lift it?

    If he can, he can't be all powerful because he can't lift the rock.

    If he can't he isn't all powerful because he can't make the rock.

    Isn't logic a female dog.
    ;-p
    This logic just shows how foolish you are. Think about it.
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    30 Sep '11 23:32
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You can assume anything you what, but all that does a make an

    ASS out of U and ME.

    We have proof God exists through the things He created. We do
    not have to assume that. There is no need to worry then about
    whether He always existed.
    presuming he exists.

    ether god has always existed.
    Or god has a beginning.

    If god has a beginning you have to ask , what caused god.
    Which means you have just shifted the problem of first cause to god, not solved it with god.

    If god has no beginning but is eternal, then you have to wonder what he was doing for the eternity of time before creating this universe.

    You then either have to postulate other universes he created and managed, or lived in.
    Or that he sat on his hands for an infinity of time before suddenly deciding to create our universe.

    If he has been creating universe for an eternity, that makes us rather less special than the bible would have us believe.
    If he has been sitting on his hands for an eternity you are left with a first cause question again when you ask what
    caused god to jump out of his infinitely long reverie and suddenly create the universe.



    And the universe doesn't count as evidence for god.
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    30 Sep '11 23:341 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You can assume anything you what, but all that does a make an

    ASS out of U and ME.

    We have proof God exists through the things He created. We do
    not have to assume that. There is no need to worry then about
    whether He always existed.
    whats the proof?...I see people creating things and can say I know how made those things. I have read and been told stories about a number of different Gods creating the sun and sky...but no proof of that.

    well said google
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    30 Sep '11 23:34
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    This logic just shows how foolish you are. Think about it.
    No it's a perfectly standard logical paradox created by the concept of an omni max god.

    Of course if god is not all powerful then he doesn't have this problem.

    If he is then he is logically inconsistent.

    You can phrase it anyway you like.

    can he make a thing that it is impossible for him to destroy, for example.

    I am not making it up. it's a known problem with omni max gods.
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    30 Sep '11 23:53
    How much must you miss the point if you ask for proof?


    Faith > proof, but proof denies faith. That is why there is no proof.

    If you had proof, would you still not believe?

    Free will is important in establishing responsibility for your own beliefs, or lack of them.

    If you had proof, your free will would be a sham.
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