How Healthy is Your Relationship With God?

Originally posted by @secondson
Actually it boils down to individual integrity.

I'd like to hear the examples.

Okay, let's return to my original statement:

'An unhealthy relationship is one that makes them feel justified in persecuting others for not sharing their beliefs.'

Christians have certainly been on the receiving end of such persecution, but we don't have to go back too far in history to find them also taking part in the 'persecuting,' (due to a sense of divine justification).

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Okay, let's return to my original statement:

'An unhealthy relationship is one that makes them feel justified in persecuting others for not sharing their beliefs.'

Christians have certainly been on the receiving end of such persecution, but we don't have to go back too far in history to find them also taking part in the 'persecuting,' (due to a sense of divine justification).

Atheists often say Muslims who murder in the name of Islam and allah are not true Muslims.

I wonder if atheists extend the same reasoning to Christians who persecuted people centuries ago.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Okay, let's return to my original statement:

'An unhealthy relationship is one that makes them feel justified in persecuting others for not sharing their beliefs.'

Christians have certainly been on the receiving end of such persecution, but we don't have to go back too far in history to find them also taking part in the 'persecuting,' (due to a sense of divine justification).

Okay. Let's examine the validity of your subsequent statement.

"...we don't have to go back too far in history to find them also taking part in the 'persecuting,' (due to a sense of divine justification)."

So I ask, did Jesus persecute anyone? Besides His warnings to His persecutors did Jesus ever call for the persecution of those that disagreed with Him?

Christians don't persecute Christians. Or anyone else. Those who call themselves Christian, but cause suffering, are like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. They are false Christians. They bring reproach on Christ.

Having said that, Christians can and do cause harm. They do stupid things, and can make really big mistakes that not only wreck their own lives but the lives of those they are supposed to love.

Notwithstanding some of the stupid things said by Christians in this forum does that mean persecution. It just means we're all fallible. Christians and non-Christians alike.

But there is that which sets us apart.

Originally posted by @fmf
I am a "non-Christian" and not an "anti-Christian". Naturally, I get that some people don't realize or even automatically conflate the two.

You are an unbeliever, and your words betray your anti-Christian sentiment.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Shall we begin with the Crusades?

Sure, but don't neglect to include Islam.

I'm not an expert in history by a long shot, but it seems to me that not much has changed in human relations since time began.

It's a blame game.

Originally posted by @secondson
So I ask, did Jesus persecute anyone? Besides His warnings to His persecutors did Jesus ever call for the persecution of those that disagreed with Him?

Christians don't persecute Christians. Or anyone else. Those who call themselves Christian, but cause suffering, are like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. They are false Christians. They bring reproach on C ...[text shortened]... 're all fallible. Christians and non-Christians alike.

But there is that which sets us apart.

Isn't this just a No True Scotsman logical fallacy writ large?

Originally posted by @fmf
Isn't this just a No True Scotsman logical fallacy writ large?

What part of "Christians don't persecute" don't you understand?

Originally posted by @secondson
What part of "Christians don't persecute" don't you understand?

European Christians, for example, persecuted the Jews for nigh on 2,000 years. I understanding that. They did it on a personal level. They did it at a neighbourhood level. They did it at a village level. They did it at an institutional level. They used their Bibles to justify it. Their clerics encouraged it. What do you mean by "Christians don't persecute" and do you understand what a No True Scotsman logical fallacy is?

Originally posted by @fmf
European Christians, for example, persecuted the Jews for nigh on 2,000 years. I understanding that. They did it on a personal level. They did it at a neighbourhood level. They did it at a village level. They did it at an institutional level. They used their Bibles to justify it. Their clerics encouraged it. What do you mean by "Christians don't persecute" and do you understand what a No True Scotsman logical fallacy is?

Persecution is antithetical to biblical doctrine. The Jew has been persecuted everywhere he goes. Antisemitism is satanic.

You are suffering from reverse no true Scotsman syndrome.

Originally posted by @secondson
Christians don't persecute Christians. Or anyone else. Those who call themselves Christian, but cause suffering, are like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. They are false Christians.

These words are the essence of your use of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Christians persecuted the Jews for nigh on 2,000 years. Your personal disapproval of what Christians did does not make them not-Christians nor does it make what they did go away. In the real world, Christians are what Christian do, just as Scotsmen who wear underpants underneath their kilts are Scotsmen, whether one likes it or not.

Originally posted by @fmf
These words are the essence of your use of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Christians persecuted the Jews for nigh on 2,000 years. Your personal disapproval of what Christians did does not make them not-Christians nor does it make what they did go away. In the real world, Christians are what Christian do, just as Scotsmen who wear underpants underneath their kilts are Scotsmen, whether one likes it or not.

It makes no sense arguing with these jokers. He is trying to say that the Catholic Church are not Christians.

Originally posted by @rajk999
It makes no sense arguing with these jokers. He is trying to say that the Catholic Church are not Christians.

In his book 'On the Jews and their Lies', Martin Luther excoriates [the Jews] as "venomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate." He provided detailed recommendations for a pogrom against them, calling for their permanent oppression and expulsion, writing "Their private houses must be destroyed and devastated, they could be lodged in stables. Let the magistrates burn their synagogues and let whatever escapes be covered with sand and mud. Let them be forced to work, and if this avails nothing, we will be compelled to expel them like dogs in order not to expose ourselves to incurring divine wrath and eternal damnation from the Jews and their lies." At one point he wrote: "...we are at fault in not slaying them..." [wiki]

It goes right back to the "Church Fathers" and Christian writing and theology is infused with anti-semitism stretching all the way back to Christianity's inception.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_antisemitism

Originally posted by @fmf
[b]In his book On the Jews and their Lies, Martin Luther excoriates them as "venomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate." He provided detailed recommendations for a pogrom against them, calling for their permanent oppression and expulsion, writing "Their private houses must be destroyed and devastated, they could be lodged in stables. L ...[text shortened]... back to Christianity's inception.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_antisemitism

Nice .. I see the habit of Christians practicing calling people devil goes way back

Originally posted by @fmf
[b]In his book 'On the Jews and their Lies', Martin Luther excoriates [the Jews] as "venomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate." He provided detailed recommendations for a pogrom against them, calling for their permanent oppression and expulsion, writing "Their private houses must be destroyed and devastated, they could be lodged in st ...[text shortened]... back to Christianity's inception.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_antisemitism

So what's the difference between you and Martin Luther?

Originally posted by @secondson
So what's the difference between you and Martin Luther?

Well unlike the father of Protestant Christianity, I am not an anti-Semite, for a start, and I have never written anything that could possibly be described as "a giant step forward on the road to the Holocaust." There are a couple of differences.