How many Christians believe in the Devil?

Originally posted by sugiezd
No, you can't but, more often than not, disease attacks the innocent.

Care to justify god's position on that?

I cant.

Originally posted by Nicksten
I cant.

So, you're a believer who simply accepts that such things are god's way?

Originally posted by sugiezd
So, you're a believer who simply accepts that such things are god's way?

I would argue that all suffering is a result of sin in the world. Yet you say there are those who do not deserve to suffer like the children, for example. According to the Bible was Christ innocent? Yes he was yet he was described as a man of many sorrows and aquainted with grief and was utlimatly tortured and killed. Biblically how does one come to terms with this as well? It is apparent that once sin entered the world it struck at both innocent and guilty. Sin is a destructive force that does not descriminate between innocent and guilty. It is like being in the middle of a hurricane which will eventually take your life as well.

Originally posted by whodey
I would argue that all suffering is a result of sin in the world. Yet you say there are those who do not deserve to suffer like the children, for example. According to the Bible was Christ innocent? Yes he was yet he was described as a man of many sorrows and aquainted with grief and was utlimatly tortured and killed. Biblically how does one come to terms ...[text shortened]... ty. It is like being in the middle of a hurricane which will eventually take your life as well.

"once sin entered the world it struck at both innocent and guilty"

Didn't god create sin?

An innocent child, ravaged by some awful disease didn't ask Jesus to die for his sins as he has none.

Please don't launch into some son of man diatribe, I think I'd be sick.

Originally posted by sugiezd
"once sin entered the world it struck at both innocent and guilty"

Didn't god create sin?

An innocent child, ravaged by some awful disease didn't ask Jesus to die for his sins as he has none.

Please don't launch into some son of man diatribe, I think I'd be sick.

Didn't god create sin?
No.

An innocent child, ravaged by some awful disease didn't ask Jesus to die for his sins as he has none.
You've missed the point. First, no one is born innocent, per se; we are all born with the sin nature, passed on by Adam. While the soul is created perfect, it inhabits a sin-cursed body. No one dies because of their personal sins: all personal sin was part of the contingent plan of God from eternity past. Whether anyone asked Him to or not, God had already formulated a plan to pay for all sin via the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

Since all sin has been paid for by His work, the only folks who enter into hell are those who refuse to accept His work as their own. The child who dies prior to realizing an ability to formulate such a decision is automatically transferred to Heaven.

Please don't launch into some son of man diatribe, I think I'd be sick.
Ostensibly, the nausea would be induced as a result of considering a concept which stands in complete contradiction to the concepts you hold as true. That is a uniquely strong perception you hold, as I know of many people who can at least consider conflicting strings of thought without losing their lunches. You may want to get your conceptual gag-reflex looked into by a mental health professional... just in case this leads to something even more serious.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]Didn't god create sin?
No.

An innocent child, ravaged by some awful disease didn't ask Jesus to die for his sins as he has none.
You've missed the point. First, no one is born innocent, per se; we are all born with the sin nature, passed on by Adam. While the soul is created perfect, it inhabits a sin-cursed body. No one dies because ...[text shortened]... by a mental health professional... just in case this leads to something even more serious.[/b]

But, I thought that god created everything.

Originally posted by sugiezd
But, I thought that god created everything.

God created free will; free will makes sin a possibility, but not a certainty.

Originally posted by sugiezd
But, I thought that god created everything.

Did God create darkness? No, rather, darkness is simply a word used to describe the absence of light. Darkness is not measurable in any way other than if light is present. In fact, darkness does not exist.

What about coldness does it exist? No, in fact, it does not. Cold is simply a term used to describe a lack of heat. Every object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter transmit energy. Absolute zero is the total absence of heat. All matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature.

Therefore if neither darkness nor coldness exists neither were created by God. They are simply terms to reflect the absence of what has been created by God. Likewise sin is simply the absence of the love of God in ones heart. God did not create this absence, rather, man chose this absence when he chose to sin.

Originally posted by Nicksten
You blame the person who started all of it.

Right; I blame God.

Originally posted by sugiezd
So, you're a believer who simply accepts that such things are god's way?

I agree with Whodey's post...


"I would argue that all suffering is a result of sin in the world. Yet you say there are those who do not deserve to suffer like the children, for example. According to the Bible was Christ innocent? Yes he was yet he was described as a man of many sorrows and aquainted with grief and was utlimatly tortured and killed. Biblically how does one come to terms with this as well? It is apparent that once sin entered the world it struck at both innocent and guilty. Sin is a destructive force that does not descriminate between innocent and guilty. It is like being in the middle of a hurricane which will eventually take your life as well."

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Right; I blame God.

Do you have prove He started it?

Originally posted by whodey
Did God create darkness? No, rather, darkness is simply a word used to describe the absence of light. Darkness is not measurable in any way other than if light is present. In fact, darkness does not exist.

What about coldness does it exist? No, in fact, it does not. Cold is simply a term used to describe a lack of heat. Every object is susceptible ...[text shortened]... es heart. God did not create this absence, rather, man chose this absence when he chose to sin.

Absolute rubbish.

The comparison between sin and cold/darkness is entirely erroneous.

Without arguing whether or not the latter two exist or not (in itself debatable), sin is, as you say yourself, something which men "chose" to do and therefore must exist.

Nothing which exists was created by other than god, therefore god created sin.

Originally posted by sugiezd
Absolute rubbish.

The comparison between sin and cold/darkness is entirely erroneous.

Without arguing whether or not the latter two exist or not (in itself debatable), sin is, as you say yourself, something which men "chose" to do and therefore must exist.

Nothing which exists was created by other than god, therefore god created sin.

Nothing which exists was created by [anything??] other than god, therefore god created sin.

This is a rather simplistic view. Creating [wanted] condition X that allows for [unwanted] result Z is not tantamount to X being a sufficient cause for Z.

You can use semantics to justify your position (as you do here), but do try and understand that the topic is slightly more complex than you make it out to be.

Originally posted by Nicksten
Do you have prove He started it?

I doubt God even exists, but you believe the bible, which claims that God created all humans, despite knowing in advance that all of them would be flawed, commit sins, and suffer. If all that is true, then God must bear the blame for starting it off.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
I doubt God even exists, but you believe the bible, which claims that God created all humans, despite knowing in advance that all of them would be flawed, commit sins, and suffer. If all that is true, then God must bear the blame for starting it off.

Or, be willing to pay the penalty of offering free will in the first place. Wait... He already did that!