1. Joined
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    11 Nov '06 18:59
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If the mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds, as the bible claims, then why should anything else the bible says be taken seriously? How can the bible be taken as being literally true, or as being the word of god, when it contains a obvious falsehood?
    this was a real long tme ago, they probably didnt even discover a smaller seed yet.
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    11 Nov '06 19:24
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    this was a real long tme ago, they probably didnt even discover a smaller seed yet.
    It doesn't matter what man knows. Surely god would have known all about various seeds from around the world. And if the bible is the word of god, then surely he would have passed along his knowledge of seeds. Or if he thought mankind wasn't ready for that particular revelation then he would have left seeds out of it altogether. In any event, I don't see why he would propogate a demonstrable falsehood.
  3. Standard memberKellyJayonline
    Walk your Faith
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    11 Nov '06 19:26
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    I'm just curious, how many Christians here believe in the devil and Hell, etc...

    Personally i find the idea a little silly (sorry, don't want to pour scorn on Religion, but this interpretation of what happens to bad people when they die just strikes me as a little medieval)

    What are peoples thoughts? If you choose not to believe in the Devil, yet y ...[text shortened]... ven? Must a rational person also discount Heaven as a reality also once Hell has been dropped?
    I believe him to be very real.
    Kelly
  4. Standard memberamannion
    Andrew Mannion
    Melbourne, Australia
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    12 Nov '06 21:58
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    If I believe everything the Bible says, it does not mean that cause of the fact that I say that I believe everything the Bible says - that I am forcing anyone to feel or believe what I believe or feel.

    It is your own choice to believe in what ever it is you wish to believe in. If I see God in everything, that is what I see - and clearly people who do not ...[text shortened]...

    Feel free to leave more sarcastic remarks (or as some people refer "positive criticism"😉 😛
    If love is God and God is love, couldn't you just dispense with the God notion and say love is?
    That's what I do ...
  5. Standard memberamannion
    Andrew Mannion
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    12 Nov '06 21:59
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    I'm just curious, how many Christians here believe in the devil and Hell, etc...

    Personally i find the idea a little silly (sorry, don't want to pour scorn on Religion, but this interpretation of what happens to bad people when they die just strikes me as a little medieval)

    What are peoples thoughts? If you choose not to believe in the Devil, yet y ...[text shortened]... ven? Must a rational person also discount Heaven as a reality also once Hell has been dropped?
    For many (probably most) of the Christians I know and work with, the idea of an actual real Devil is ridiculous.
  6. This is embarrasking
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    12 Nov '06 23:23
    Originally posted by sugiezd
    That's nice - do you see him in war, disease, famine?
    Well, I am not sure how it all works but if I were to literally believe everything in the bible were true, I would think the Arc Angel was more responsible for that. You know the serpent. Beelzebub or whatever name him and his followers go by. Now some of the authors were only human therefore mistake prone. Also those who have translated the Bible I am pretty sure make a few errors, and not God himself, so I would think that any flaws were probbably inserted by them and not God. I would interpret it, "the Bible" as God inspired but written by man. Many of them in fact.
  7. This is embarrasking
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    12 Nov '06 23:31
    Originally posted by rwingett
    But the Old Testament is so embarassing that we'll just skip over that one. Right?
    If you read the "New Testament" you will see that as the story goes, God came to earth in the form of man with one of his missions to help show that much of what people thought was correct in the "Old Testament" was in fact not exactly what was in Gods will but in mans instead. Man has a tendency not to listen to Gods will but instead his own. As you can clearly see if you read the Moses story. That does not mean that the "Old Testement" doesn't have value.
  8. This is embarrasking
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    12 Nov '06 23:33
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Do you believe that the mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds?
    What is this you are talking about? Are you referring to Faith being compared to a single grain of Mustard seed? Are you saying a Mountain can't be moved?
  9. Unknown Territories
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    13 Nov '06 00:12
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If the mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds, as the bible claims, then why should anything else the bible says be taken seriously? How can the bible be taken as being literally true, or as being the word of god, when it contains a obvious falsehood?
    Just a spoon full of proper-exegetical-treatment-that-is-to-say-understanding-original-languages makes the medicine go down,
    medicine go down,
    medicine go down.
    A spoon full of proper-exegetical-treatment-that-is-to-say-understanding-original-languages makes the medicine go down,
    in the most delightful way.
  10. This is embarrasking
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    13 Nov '06 00:52
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If the mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds, as the bible claims, then why should anything else the bible says be taken seriously? How can the bible be taken as being literally true, or as being the word of god, when it contains a obvious falsehood?
    In all honesty have you ever believed any falsehoods to be true at any point in your life? And latter reversed your thinking? If so then why should we have any trust in what you disbelieve as accurate? You seem to believe antichrist but reject pro-christ. I say by your own theory that everything you say should be rejected because you or someone you believed in made one simple error. You have to remember, the bible is not written by Gods hands but by mans so therefore you can expect small errors because no man is perfect. But lets just ponder for a moment. What if say it a few years someone discovered a mustard seed to small for you to know about at this time. Wouldn't you look foolish?
  11. Joined
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    13 Nov '06 02:56
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If the mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds, as the bible claims, then why should anything else the bible says be taken seriously? How can the bible be taken as being literally true, or as being the word of god, when it contains a obvious falsehood?
    Taken from http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/mustard.htm

    Some people note that there are smaller seeds in existence,
    and then claim that Jesus didn't know about those seeds.

    Jesus NEVER said that.

    The parable Jesus gave out has several conditions that are
    specifically stated in the parable. To ignore all the other
    statements Jesus made in that parable and all the discussion
    prior to it, is to basically put words into Jesus's mouth
    that he never said.

    The context of Jesus's parable is that of a harvest, the
    verses prior to that verse set, they were specifically
    discussing a harvest... parallel's being made concerning
    a harvest, seeds being sown and the crop being harvested.

    The mustard seed Jesus mentioned is the smallest they had
    that would get sown and then harvested, that all the people
    would have known about then. The mustard seed Jesus described
    is expected to be the black mustard, which does grow to about
    12 feet tall in Israel.

    Given the people Jesus was talking with, their knowledge
    of the day, and the crops they would harvest, Jesus had
    told them the truth. For them, the mustard seed is the
    smallest seed that they would've sown and later harvested.

    There is no contradiction in what Jesus had told them.
    The parable that Jesus was giving out is an analogy, it's
    not meant to provide any sort of science education, but
    to convey a concept using common terms that they would
    have understood, common concepts being used to explain
    something they didn't understand.

    Taken from http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/mustard.htm


    My thoughts are let's take this to the next step. Your claim is that since what the bible says about the mustard seed is false, then everything in the bible is false.

    If we follow the same logic and note that your claim is false, then everything you say is false and no one should ever believe anything you say!

    May I recommend a refresher course on simple logical thinking.
  12. Standard memberamannion
    Andrew Mannion
    Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Nov '06 03:46
    Originally posted by bearupyourcross
    Taken from http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/mustard.htm

    Some people note that there are smaller seeds in existence,
    and then claim that Jesus didn't know about those seeds.

    Jesus NEVER said that.

    The parable Jesus gave out has several conditions that are
    specifically stated in the parable. To ignore all the other
    statements Jesus ma ...[text shortened]... ieve anything you say!

    May I recommend a refresher course on simple logical thinking.
    Nice one BUYC, except that since most fundamentlists assume that the Bible is 'literally' the word of God, then there can be no errors. This is I think what the argument was an attempt to demonstrate.
    Unfortunately, everyone here often get a bit caught up in the heat of their positions.
  13. Joined
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    13 Nov '06 04:451 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    It doesn't matter what man knows. Surely god would have known all about various seeds from around the world. And if the bible is the word of god, then surely he would have passed along his knowledge of seeds. Or if he thought mankind wasn't ready for that particular revelation then he would have left seeds out of it altogether. In any event, I don't see why he would propogate a demonstrable falsehood.
    Is it just me or is it ironic that the mustard seed parable that was used by Christ to describe how faith operates is being used to try and bring doubt upon believers? LOL.
  14. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    13 Nov '06 14:20
    Originally posted by cashthetrash
    If you read the "New Testament" you will see that as the story goes, God came to earth in the form of man with one of his missions to help show that much of what people thought was correct in the "Old Testament" was in fact not exactly what was in Gods will but in mans instead. Man has a tendency not to listen to Gods will but instead his own. As you ca ...[text shortened]... you read the Moses story. That does not mean that the "Old Testement" doesn't have value.
    The only value any of the bible has is as literature. It's a good story, nothing more.
  15. Joined
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    13 Nov '06 14:24
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The only value any of the bible has is as literature. It's a good story, nothing more.
    No historical value for you then?
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