How many non-chritian non-atheists are there on...

Originally posted by David C
You just left 'em twisting in the wind about 5 pages back, didn'tcha?

Just trying to be helpful & answer the question.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Would the housekeepers?

On further reflection, I think they would.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
It sure is.

Cardinal Law, a man known to turn child molesters loose on various congregations, but [b]a man nonetheless, is entitled to have women clean his toilet. Are those women entitled to have a man clean their toilets? I doubt it. How many women in the church are entitled to a car and driver? As you said, the sexes have diffe ...[text shortened]... and that if any don't, it's only because of their philosophical and theological shortcomings.[/b]

but [b]a man nonetheless, is entitled to have women clean his toilet.[/b]

He isn't entitled to it - it is something the Church provides him to aid him with his current work. And it doesn't have to be women - male religious who have an aptitude for it could be asked to do so as well.

Are those women entitled to have a man clean their toilets?

Given that they probably live in the same quarters, those are probably their own toilets as well.

How many women in the church are entitled to a car and driver?

How many abesses do you know?

those nuns on their knees, brush in hand, with the scent of urine wafting up through their holy nostrils,

What age do you live in - the Middle Ages? And do you actually believe these words are the case or are you just going on for dramatic effect?

Have you ever employed a housekeeper? Alternatively, do you (or have you ever) had a wife who kept the home? I'd love to see you tell them what they do lacks dignity.

have just as much dignity as the Pope being cheered by huge crowds in Vatican Square and flossing around in the popemobile

Yes, they have as much dignity as the Pope in their persons and in what they do. That one person's job is done in the public glare and the other person's is not does not change that. If the Pope is cheered by huge crowds in Vatican Square, then he is not immune from newspaper headlines like "Hitler's Pope" either. If you think the Pope is "flossing" in the Popemobile, then you've got it dead wrong. Pick up a decent biography of JPII if you ever get the time and see what his daily schedule and overall responsibilities included. Do not judge things based on your eyes alone.

EDIT: Re: philosophical and theological shortcomings
Based on my experiences with the nuns I've met, they are generally people who are comfortable under their skin with the vocation that God has given them.

Originally posted by Will Everitt
I do not think you can keep denying the fact that the church is sexist. Its not like say the existance of god that really could go either way but we have diffrent veiws, it is rooted in fact that the church is sexist, i know you will keep trying to defend it but when it comes down to it im sure it is clear to most that the church is. I can understand yo ...[text shortened]... t orgainisation in your eyes. But because it is so improtant does this mean it is without fault?

1. That's the word "fact" twice.
a. What you mean by "sexist"?
b. How is it a "fact" that the Church is sexist?

2. I don't say the Church is without fault. Nor do I say there aren't areas where women should have a greater role to play - in the Curia, for instance. But changing the nature of the 2000-year old priesthood itself is pushing PC to the extreme IMO.

Originally posted by Will Everitt
I do not think you can keep denying the fact that the church is sexist. Its not like say the existance of god that really could go either way but we have diffrent veiws, it is rooted in fact that the church is sexist, i know you will keep trying to defend it but when it comes down to it im sure it is clear to most that the church is. I can understand yo ...[text shortened]... t orgainisation in your eyes. But because it is so improtant does this mean it is without fault?

When you say "The Church" are you refering to the Roman Catholic Church?
My experience is that most cultures are sexist to various degrees and that a large part of culture gets incorporated into religion. Some of this apparent sexism is perpetuated by the women as well as the men. I know that many women choose to be housewives and let the man go out to work even when other options are available. I know that many women want a man as the head of the household and the head of the Church as well. Whether or not the men actually get to take any decisions on thier own is debatable.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
But changing the nature of the 2000-year old priesthood itself is pushing PC to the extreme IMO.

Was Luther being PC? Pshaw.

Tradition is the RCC's primary reason for maintaining the status quo. Do you agree?

Originally posted by twhitehead
When you say "The Church" are you refering to the Roman Catholic Church?
My experience is that most cultures are sexist to various degrees and that a large part of culture gets incorporated into religion. Some of this apparent sexism is perpetuated by the women as well as the men. I know that many women choose to be housewives and let the man go out to ...[text shortened]... ch as well. Whether or not the men actually get to take any decisions on thier own is debatable.

I know that many women choose to be housewives and let the man go out to work even when other options are available.

What's wrong with that? Would you complain if it were the other way around?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Was Luther being PC? Pshaw.

Tradition is the RCC's primary reason for maintaining the status quo. Do you agree?

1. How does Luther come into the picture?

2. Sacred Tradition. Yes.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
1. How does Luther come into the picture?

2. Sacred Tradition. Yes.

1. Never mind.

2. OK.