1. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    05 Jan '09 14:18
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    But science guided by the sure hand of reason will save us. Who is it that is firing those missiles in the Gaza strip? ================================ringwett=============================================================

    The missiles would not exist if it were not for science , so maybe science and religion are good teammates?

    But who is it th ...[text shortened]... on the edge of the abyss but still flying to disney land and sticking our heads in the sand.
    There has been a huge change in the public perception of the risks of global warming in a very short amount of time. Green initiatives are springing up right and left. There is much work to be done and many people who will follow only their short term interests, but I remain quite hopeful that mankind will rise above this crisis and stave off your doom and gloom prophecies.
  2. Joined
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    05 Jan '09 14:30
    Originally posted by rwingett
    There has been a huge change in the public perception of the risks of global warming in a very short amount of time. Green initiatives are springing up right and left. There is much work to be done and many people who will follow only their short term interests, but I remain quite hopeful that mankind will rise above this crisis and stave off your doom and gloom prophecies.
    Indeed. In fact, the current green initiative was to create a credit crisis by people lending and borrowing money in a morally bankrupt manner. Then they turn around and steal from the tax payers to pay the difference while all the while destroying the world economy.

    So why was this a green initiative you may ask? It is because in a world wide recession/depression, there are much less fossil fuels being burned due to the destruction of demand.

    Brilliant!! Yes I too have faith in mankind solving this dilemma. 🙄
  3. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    05 Jan '09 14:56
    Originally posted by whodey
    Indeed. In fact, the current green initiative was to create a credit crisis by people lending and borrowing money in a morally bankrupt manner. Then they turn around and steal from the tax payers to pay the difference while all the while destroying the world economy.

    So why was this a green initiative you may ask? It is because in a world wide recession ...[text shortened]... estruction of demand.

    Brilliant!! Yes I too have faith in mankind solving this dilemma. 🙄
    Whose side are you on? You're part of mankind, in case you hadn't noticed. Its as though you want everyone to perish so your theistic world view can claim a moral victory. Well guess what? Your god isn't going to solve the problem. Religious fundamentalism has never solved ANY problems. Mankind will have to solve the problem on their own, or they will perish. If they perish, then they deserve the blame. If the problem gets solved, then mankind gets the credit.

    Here's the problem with your religious types–whenever something bad happens, you blame mankind. Whenever something good happens, you give god all the credit. If god exists then he can take all the credit, but he must shoulder all the blame as well. If there is no god then obviously mankind gets all the credit and the blame. You can't arbitrarily assign all the credit to one party and all the blame to the other.
  4. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    05 Jan '09 17:361 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    There has been a huge change in the public perception of the risks of global warming in a very short amount of time. Green initiatives are springing up right and left. There is much work to be done and many people who will follow only their short term interests, but I remain quite hopeful that mankind will rise above this crisis and stave off your doom and gloom prophecies.
    And what is your reasoning and scientific evidence for this hope?

    Already we are at the point where 2-3 degrees more could be disasterous. Ever heard of methane hydrates at the bottom of the oceans? If they start melting it won't make much difference what we do.

    A lot of scientists that I hear on TV are very very worried , far more worried than the politicians.

    What's more there's little sign of the radical (and I mean RADICAL) change needed in order avoid catastrophe. Emissions will only keep rising as the population grows and developing countries develop . No one will do anything until it's too late.

    The Americans will keep harping on about new technologies whilst continuing to build new power stations and roads (+ airports). China and India will keep developing. Where is the cut in C0 2 going to come from? We will be doing well to slow down the increase!

    The worrying thing is that if you look at nature there is always a process of homeostasis where a species gets reined in by being a victim of it's own success. A big cull or decline in numbers occurrs , man does not look on track to avoid this.

    I wonder if your hope is wishful thinking. You have to believe that man's reason will pull us through. It's your faith afterall.
  5. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    05 Jan '09 17:45
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Whose side are you on? You're part of mankind, in case you hadn't noticed. Its as though you want everyone to perish so your theistic world view can claim a moral victory. Well guess what? Your god isn't going to solve the problem. Religious fundamentalism has never solved ANY problems. Mankind will have to solve the problem on their own, or they will peris ...[text shortened]... e. You can't arbitrarily assign all the credit to one party and all the blame to the other.
    We are not discussing the pitfalls of religious fundamentalism here. What I want to know is what does a person do in the face of what's happening. Man is on the brink of destroying the only home he has in the entire universe. All because some of us won't give up our 4x4s or foreign holidays and politicians won't listen to scientists.

    If I were a humanist whose faith was in human nature and man's reason then I would be feeling quite anxious.

    Religious fundamentalism may or may not be the answer , but's that's irrelevant. This is quite simply the biggest challenge mankind has ever faced , but if you look around nothing really changes. People still buy airmiles and gas guzzling cars and we still pour gases into the atmosphere so that plasma screens and playstations can run.
  6. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    05 Jan '09 17:471 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    There has been a huge change in the public perception of the risks of global warming in a very short amount of time. Green initiatives are springing up right and left. There is much work to be done and many people who will follow only their short term interests, but I remain quite hopeful that mankind will rise above this crisis and stave off your doom and gloom prophecies.
    There has been a huge change in the public perception of the risks of global warming in a very short amount of time
    ---------------------ringwett --------------------

    ....................but how much radical action?

    Perceptions won't save the world. We all want to cut back emissions , the problem is that we all want the other guy to do it.

    The moment rich merchant bankers stop building themselves swimming pools because they think it's extravagent and they would prefer their grandchildren had a planet to live on , then maybe I will have hope.
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    06 Jan '09 05:33
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Whose side are you on? You're part of mankind, in case you hadn't noticed. Its as though you want everyone to perish so your theistic world view can claim a moral victory. Well guess what? Your god isn't going to solve the problem. Religious fundamentalism has never solved ANY problems. Mankind will have to solve the problem on their own, or they will peris ...[text shortened]... e. You can't arbitrarily assign all the credit to one party and all the blame to the other.
    I am merely being more skeptical of human nature than you are. As for my faith, it calls me to be accountable morally so that I don't add to such woes. Granted, this may not prevent someone like me from adding to them, but at least it identifies our need for accountability to God and our fellow man.

    The Bible says that the root of all evil is the love of money. Would you concur?
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