1. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
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    02 Jan '09 00:41
    The ice caps are melting , the CO2 keeps pumping into the air - we sense we are living on borrowed time , so what will man do?

    Will he.............

    a) stick his head in the sand and wait until it's too late thus stupidly destroying himself via his own technological prgress?

    OR

    b) Overcome his greed and shortsightedness and take proper radical and rational action like we all know we should ?

    At the moment it looks like a) is winning. My children keep asking me " why don't they do something about it?" Even they can see that all the posturing and politics won't be enough.

    So , humanists , is your faith in the goodness and rational nature of man going shaken at all? At the moment it looks like the Christians are right. They say that man is basically messed up and out of touch with the created order and the creator. It's beginning to look like a safe bet. The politicians do sweet FA and we keep voting for them- duh? I'm convinced that in 500 years (if we make it) they will look back and think "what the...?"

    So humanity wise up and work together , take your head out of the sand - we have decades left to put it right. If we don't then all those that had "faith in human nature" will be proved wrong.

    Tick tock tick tock.......
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    02 Jan '09 01:13
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    The ice caps are melting , the CO2 keeps pumping into the air - we sense we are living on borrowed time , so what will man do?

    Will he.............

    a) stick his head in the sand and wait until it's too late thus stupidly destroying himself via his own technological prgress?

    OR

    b) Overcome his greed and shortsightedness and take proper rad ...[text shortened]... hat had "faith in human nature" will be proved wrong.

    Tick tock tick tock.......
    Who is the bigger advocate of curbing global emissions, the secular humanist left, or the religious right? Which of those two groups has an inherently apocalyptic worldview?
  3. Joined
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    02 Jan '09 01:15
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    The ice caps are melting , the CO2 keeps pumping into the air - we sense we are living on borrowed time , so what will man do?

    Will he.............

    a) stick his head in the sand and wait until it's too late thus stupidly destroying himself via his own technological prgress?

    OR

    b) Overcome his greed and shortsightedness and take proper rad ...[text shortened]... hat had "faith in human nature" will be proved wrong.

    Tick tock tick tock.......
    I agree with rwingett's post.

    I don't think either A or B are specifically "humanist" (however you define that).

    I also definitely don't think either is necessarily "christian" or the necessary position of any religious person.
  4. Break-twitching
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    02 Jan '09 01:18
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    The ice caps are melting , the CO2 keeps pumping into the air - we sense we are living on borrowed time , so what will man do?

    Will he.............

    a) stick his head in the sand and wait until it's too late thus stupidly destroying himself via his own technological prgress?

    OR

    b) Overcome his greed and shortsightedness and take proper rad ...[text shortened]... hat had "faith in human nature" will be proved wrong.

    Tick tock tick tock.......
    It is really sad isn't it? There is NO hope for man without turning to God because God created the world and man to be in harmony with Him. Just as in the days of Noah, so too will be the last days of this corrupt world. Man cannot live without God; it was not meant to be this way. Every human being senses something missing in his/her life and seeks to gratify that emptiness with money, fame, fortune,
    'secular knowledge', sex, drugs, and sloth. None of this succeeds; look at all of the miserable Hollyweird actors, the corrupt world leaders, the 'Madoffs', etc. Alas, don't lose hope because Jesus will return before man self-destructs. It is a promise that one can count on.
  5. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    02 Jan '09 01:27
    Originally posted by dystoniac
    It is really sad isn't it? There is NO hope for man without turning to God because God created the world and man to be in harmony with Him. Just as in the days of Noah, so too will be the last days of this corrupt world. Man cannot live without God; it was not meant to be this way. Every human being senses something missing in his/her life and seeks to ...[text shortened]... cause Jesus will return before man self-destructs. It is a promise that one can count on.
    If god created man to be in harmony with him, then why aren't they? Could it be that your god is an idiot? Or is it that the people who conceptualize such an incompetent god are the idiots? There is no hope for man as long as they persist in vomiting forth the type of garbage contained in your post.
  6. Joined
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    02 Jan '09 01:341 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    The ice caps are melting , the CO2 keeps pumping into the air - we sense we are living on borrowed time , so what will man do?

    Will he.............

    a) stick his head in the sand and wait until it's too late thus stupidly destroying himself via his own technological prgress?

    OR

    b) Overcome his greed and shortsightedness and take proper rad hat had "faith in human nature" will be proved wrong.

    Tick tock tick tock.......
    WTF are you talking about? Who, in your estimation, qualifies as a 'humanist'? What exactly are you committing the 'humanist' to here? What is "faith in human nature" supposed to mean? You just throw out a bunch of BS all the time and I have no idea what you are talking about.

    At the moment it looks like the Christians are right. They say that man is basically messed up and out of touch with the created order and the creator. It's beginning to look like a safe bet.

    Again, WTF? How are we to say it looks like you are right when you cannot even support your most basic assumptions? You cannot even support the claim that a creator exists in the first place.
    -------------

    As to the rest, yes the world is severely overpopulated with humans (in my opinion), and many of our practices are woefully misguided. This is supposed to be news? It's supposed to indicate the truth of Christianity? I'm very, very confused.
  7. Break-twitching
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    02 Jan '09 01:401 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If god created man to be in harmony with him, then why aren't they? Could it be that your god is an idiot? Or is it that the people who conceptualize such an incompetent god are the idiots? There is no hope for man as long as they persist in vomiting forth the type of garbage contained in your post.
    First, man is the one who doesn't want to be in harmony with God- case in point: YOU. You seem like one angry atheist. Do you blame God for some misfortune in your life or did a priest hug you too tightly?. How can the fact that man needs to be in harmony with God be 'garbage'? What relevant argument do you have in favor of this?
  8. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    02 Jan '09 01:52
    Originally posted by dystoniac
    First, man is the one who doesn't want to be in harmony with God- case in point: YOU. You seem like one angry atheist. Do you blame God for some misfortune in your life or did a priest hug you too tightly?. How can the fact that man needs to be in harmony with God be 'garbage'? What relevant argument do you have in favor of this?
    The only misfortune I have in life is the realization that you and I are from the same species. What basis do you have for claiming that all the ills of the world are from man being "out of harmony with god?" I would say the problem is more of man being out of harmony with himself due to his self-destructive habit of clinging to a man-hating god.
  9. Break-twitching
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    02 Jan '09 02:05
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The only misfortune I have in life is the realization that you and I are from the same species. What basis do you have for claiming that all the ills of the world are from man being "out of harmony with god?" I would say the problem is more of man being out of harmony with himself due to his self-destructive habit of clinging to a man-hating god.
    Ooooohhh, are you angry!! I am not of this world, so you and I are not of the same "species" You belong to the God-less who, unless you change your non-believing ways, will inherit the lair of satan and be cast out along with most of humankind. Man is given a choice, something you humanist espouse regularly, so God is democratic, not communist. He gives you a choice; you choose to not believe and seek god, therefore, you are lost and feel lost, admit it. God so loved the world (YOU and me) that He sent His only begotten Son, not to condemn the world, but to offer eternal life through the belief in Jesus Christ. How can you say that God is man-hating...you are disingenuous at best and patently stupid at worst.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    02 Jan '09 02:12
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    The ice caps are melting , the CO2 keeps pumping into the air - we sense we are living on borrowed time , so what will man do?

    Will he.............

    a) stick his head in the sand and wait until it's too late thus stupidly destroying himself via his own technological prgress?

    OR

    b) Overcome his greed and shortsightedness and take proper rad ...[text shortened]... hat had "faith in human nature" will be proved wrong.

    Tick tock tick tock.......
    Since Christians believe that Jesus will come back and save the planet before Man destroys it and himself, a good Christian should oppose any attempt to stop wrecking the environment as it will only delay Jesus' glorious return and the ultimate salvation of the human race.
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    02 Jan '09 02:18
    Originally posted by dystoniac
    Ooooohhh, are you angry!! I am not of this world, so you and I are not of the same "species" You belong to the God-less who, unless you change your non-believing ways, will inherit the lair of satan and be cast out along with most of humankind. Man is given a choice, something you humanist espouse regularly, so God is democratic, not communist. He give ...[text shortened]... an you say that God is man-hating...you are disingenuous at best and patently stupid at worst.
    Yeah, some choice your God gives us. Love and worship me, or I'll cast you out to suffer for all eternity. Wow, I can really feel the love. Your theological framework is retarded.
  12. Hmmm . . .
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    02 Jan '09 02:21
    The grammar of our consciousness, being part of the syntax of the cosmos, is coherent with that larger syntax. That does not mean that it is exhaustive of that larger syntax. But the fact that it is not so exhaustive is no warrant for supposing that the whole does not exhibit the same kind of coherency as the portions that we can discover. If it did not, we would likely not be here.

    Science and philosophy (religious and nonreligious), at their best, explore and express that coherence.

    When (some) theists claim that “God” is a supernatural being that, as such, is not bound by that coherence, they essentially assert an incoherent God. The notion of “supernature” itself—if by that is meant something “wholly other” than nature, or “outside” nature—more often than not seems to be a kind of escape-clause to ascribe to a supernatural God attributes and behavior that are, on the face of it, inconsistent and incoherent.

    Example (that has surfaced many times on here): “God exists outside of [beyond] time and space.” That really just says that God exists nowhen and nowhere! It is incoherent on the face of it.

    If such statements are simply poetic attempts to express the limits of our cognitive “grammar”—and point to the domain of mystery—then I have no problem. If they are intended as propositional statements, they are senseless: incoherent.

    A far better tack for theists, it seems to me, would be to affirm the coherence between our mind (reasoning from empirical data; expressing aesthetic harmonies; etc.) and the cosmos as being reflective of God’s own coherence, that nature (including our consciousness) reflects God’s nature. To give up all supernatural “escape clauses”. To accept that “faith” does not—cannot—trump reason.

    Some theists do that. There are theistic “humanists”.
  13. Joined
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    02 Jan '09 02:40
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    The ice caps are melting , the CO2 keeps pumping into the air - we sense we are living on borrowed time , so what will man do?

    Will he.............

    a) stick his head in the sand and wait until it's too late thus stupidly destroying himself via his own technological prgress?

    OR

    b) Overcome his greed and shortsightedness and take proper rad ...[text shortened]... hat had "faith in human nature" will be proved wrong.

    Tick tock tick tock.......
    It is the vibe I get from Revelation, namely, God allows man to have his own way until it eventually almost destroys him completely. Now as to whether or not global warming is part of the equation is still up for debate.

    As for myself, I have completely lost faith in both Big Brother and Big Business. Not that there is a real need to pretend as though they are different entities.
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    02 Jan '09 02:43
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Who is the bigger advocate of curbing global emissions, the secular humanist left, or the religious right? Which of those two groups has an inherently apocalyptic worldview?
    As I recall, McCain was a proponent of nuclear power which is a viable alternative. However, liberals act as though nuclear power would somehow be worse than continuing fossil fuels even though they claim that fossil fuels are the worst threat to us.

    If liberals were so concerned about saving us from fossil fuels they would be finding alternatives rather than saying they are bad and just use less by not driving SUV's. As a result, I think the whole debate is nothing more than political posturing.
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    02 Jan '09 02:53
    Originally posted by whodey
    As I recall, McCain was a proponent of nuclear power which is a viable alternative. However, liberals act as though nuclear power would somehow be worse than continuing fossil fuels even though they claim that fossil fuels are the worst threat to us.

    If liberals were so concerned about saving us from fossil fuels they would be finding alternatives rather ...[text shortened]... driving SUV's. As a result, I think the whole debate is nothing more than political posturing.
    Why you keep posting such lies (that you know are lies) I'll never know.

    "Liberals" do support alternative energy sources, not just conservation (though conservation and efficiency are good ideas too).
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