10 Jul 15
Originally posted by Rank outsider
If God brought back Mosaic law, and applied it to all of humanity, would the Christians here execute gay people or disobey God?
But I think even thinking a gay person is gay by choice is rather ridiculous on the face of it, considering the extreme harrassment one might receive by announcing they're gay, who would choose that? At least society is changing enough, albeit slowly, so that most people can 'come out' with less fear than ever.
Leaving aside it was the Bible that helped, in part, to create this fear in the first place, perhaps you would care to answer the question in the OP.
This was God's righteous commandment once - would you obey it if he decided to reimpose it?
10 Jul 15
2 edits
Originally posted by Rank outsiderFirst of all me thinks that your statement is not wholly accurate. The Mosaic law condemns all kinds of immoral acts from bestiality to sodomy and all persons who engage in them.
If God brought back Mosaic law, and applied it to all of humanity, would the Christians here execute gay people or disobey God?
I personally would not execute sodomites for i have real qualms about taking any kind of life, human or animal. I suspect that I may even forfeit my own life rather than take anothers. Its a very cruel hand which casts the first stone. I would not have made a very good Israelite I think.
10 Jul 15
Originally posted by Rank outsider
If God brought back Mosaic law, and applied it to all of humanity, would the Christians here execute gay people or disobey God?
The old testament laws were enacted by Moses to indicate what acts were wrong. The command for a man not to lie with another man as he would with a woman was to be a deterrent to prevent such acts. It was just like the law to deter the act of adultry. So it was not just because a person was gay that law was put in force, but to prevent those people from doing things that were against the will of God.
The punishments that Moses commanded seem very harsh by today's standards. Today, we are even getting away from executing people who commit murder and prefer to house and feed them for life in prison at the people's expense. Such lenient punishment has led to crime of all kinds running a muck. But having prisons in the Arabian desert for Moses was not a practical option at the time.
I thought I would clarify that to distinguish between the act and just being gay before I answered your question. But yes, I would attempt to obey all laws that our Lord puts in place when He returns in glory.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
10 Jul 15
1 edit
Originally posted by checkbaiterWould you obey this law of moses if you had a stubborn and rebellious son like described here:
I will always choose to obey God. He is righteous and wiser than any man.
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 KJV)
11 Jul 15
Originally posted by Rank outsiderSince you have thus far received no takers to your "hypothetical" question, you then lay hands on a quote of mine and then proceed to drag me into this thread, kicking and screaming. I had not intended to respond to this thread, especially given the vehement reaction to the last "hypothetical" thread I responded to.But I think even thinking a gay person is gay by choice is rather ridiculous on the face of it, considering the extreme harrassment one might receive by announcing they're gay, who would choose that? At least society is changing enough, albeit slowly, so that most people can 'come out' with less fear than ever.
Leaving aside it was th ...[text shortened]... .
This was God's righteous commandment once - would you obey it if he decided to reimpose it?
It's no secret that I am not a fan of the "hypothetical" question threads. To me, they merely represent an atheist concocting a wholly bizarre and nonsensical question designed to make any Christian answering it look like a fool.
This being said, it is simply not possible that God would begin demanding adherence (yes, begin, for Gentiles were never under Mosaic law, only Hebrews) to Mosaic law for Gentiles, especially after the beginning of the era of Grace that we are now in since the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. There is simply no need for Mosaic law among Christians. So quite simply, this hypothetical would never happen, not in a million years.
Given that such a change to the law would NOT be from God, I see no problem with refusing to comply. I'm far more concerned with the stories I hear circulating about factions in Israel supposedly trying to bring back the Sanhedrin.
So asking us "What would we do?" if this happened is the equivalent of asking "Who would win in a fight? Superman or Batman?" and then saying that the people who don't choose your choice are utter imbeciles. Actually, no, I'd probably chime in on that question, because given the DC Universe at present (I actually like the new Wonder Woman outfit, unlike most I've heard talk about it), I could see that happening, unlike your initial question.
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Originally posted by SuzianneI think checkbaiter came close enough to the affirmative ("I will always choose to obey God. He is righteous and wiser than any man." ) without agreeing that the hypothetical could ever again be actual.
Since you have thus far received no takers to your "hypothetical" question, you then lay hands on a quote of mine and then proceed to drag me into this thread, kicking and screaming. I had not intended to respond to this thread, especially given the vehement reaction to the last "hypothetical" thread I responded to.
It's no secret that I am not a fan of ...[text shortened]... unlike most I've heard talk about it), I could see that happening, unlike your initial question.
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Originally posted by JS357I stand by what I said. To say it is wrong is to make yourself the judge of God Himself.
I think checkbaiter came close enough to the affirmative ("I will always choose to obey God. He is righteous and wiser than any man." ) without agreeing that the hypothetical could ever again be actual.
Originally posted by SuzianneI chose that quote as it seemed pertinent to the question I asked. Suggesting that I have dragged you kicking and screaming into this forum is just another example of you playing the drama queen, something that unfortunately you have an increasing tendency to do, having been one of the better contributors to this forum in the past.
Since you have thus far received no takers to your "hypothetical" question, you then lay hands on a quote of mine and then proceed to drag me into this thread, kicking and screaming. I had not intended to respond to this thread, especially given the vehement reaction to the last "hypothetical" thread I responded to.
It's no secret that I am not a fan of ...[text shortened]... unlike most I've heard talk about it), I could see that happening, unlike your initial question.
You are sitting there complaining about society failing to change its attitude towards homosexuals quickly enough for your liking, when it is your religion that has had one of the greatest influences on this.
Other Christians have had no problem answering the question. We have two yes and one no. I would suggest that your dislike of hypotheticals is more where they take you than on the technique, which is standard debating practice.
In this case, struggling to reconcile your desire for greater tolerance for the gay community with the knowledge that it was, and still is, your religion that is one of biggest obstacles to this happening,
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI don't see how my post was not wholly accurate. I simply hypothesised that Mosaic law was reinstated and then chose one element of it. I did not suggest or imply this was the only element to it.
First of all me thinks that your statement is not wholly accurate. The Mosaic law condemns all kinds of immoral acts from bestiality to sodomy and all persons who engage in them.
I personally would not execute sodomites for i have real qualms about taking any kind of life, human or animal. I suspect that I may even forfeit my own life rather t ...[text shortened]... ry cruel hand which casts the first stone. I would not have made a very good Israelite I think.
I find it interesting that you have such qualms about it, as I find it very difficult to reconcile this position with the fact that you consider your God as represented in the OT to be perfect. How can a hand be 'cruel' if it is simply obeying the word of God? Or are you saying God is cruel?
It sounds to me that you have serious reservations about whether the OT is the perfect word of God. I know that you, like Suzianne, would never dare to admit this, but it seems the only logical inference from what you have both said.
However, I would take issue with the fact that you would not have made a very good Israelite. If time has shown us anything, it is how malleable the human mind is. If you had been brought up under this law from birth, it is entirely conceivable that you would have approved of and supported it.
Fortunately, you were not. However, the influence of your religion is still able to make you deny what seems evident to me, in that you fundamentally disagree with executing gay people, yet worship a God that does (or did, if you prefer it).
11 Jul 15
1 edit
Originally posted by SuzianneAbsolutely Superman - Batman isn't even a bat!
(This) is the equivalent of asking "Who would win in a fight? Superman or Batman?".
To RO: Good question. I would not obey it, because I would question how people actually determined that it WAS god who "reinstated" it. The supposed "God said so" always comes through humans, and we know how many of them turned out to have feet of clay.
Your turn - my hypothetical question to you: If you died and found out that you were reincarnated as a rat, would you be sorry that you had not embraced Buddhism during your lifetime and looked better after your karma?
11 Jul 15
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt's interesting how you would find it easy to back away from Mosaic law if it suited your personal qualms and yet when I've asked you if your child needed a blood transfusion to guarantee saving thier life, would you let them have one, you have repeatedly avoided answering.
First of all me thinks that your statement is not wholly accurate. The Mosaic law condemns all kinds of immoral acts from bestiality to sodomy and all persons who engage in them.
I personally would not execute sodomites for i have real qualms about taking any kind of life, human or animal. I suspect that I may even forfeit my own life rather t ...[text shortened]... ry cruel hand which casts the first stone. I would not have made a very good Israelite I think.
11 Jul 15
Originally posted by divegeesterPerhaps he believes he should always try to save lives and does not want to admit that he would not make a good Jehovah's Witness either.
It's interesting how you would find it easy to back away from Mosaic law if it suited your personal qualms and yet when I've asked you if your child needed a blood transfusion to guarantee saving thier life, would you let them have one, you have repeatedly avoided answering.