I don't understand the sacrifice.....

Originally posted by Nemesio
Don't you find that you creatively interpret Scripture whenever a seeming contradiction comes up but
insist upon literal readings when other people interpret Scripture differently from you?

Nemesio

That is called BILITEROCREATIVE disorder, and all my dear Christian friends seem to be suffering from it.

Originally posted by whodey
I think the concept can be illustrated as Christ was held by Pilate to be executed. Then, as the Jewish custome demanded, one prisoner was to be chosen by the people to be released. The people elected the guilty Barnabas over the innocent Christ and Christ went to the cross in his stead. You see, mankind has a price to pay because we are a fallen race just ...[text shortened]... ou are trading a life for a life because sin demands death but our life force lies in the blood.

According to Matthew 27:15-26—

(1) It was the governor’s custom, not a Jewish custom.

(2) The prisoner released was Jesus Barabbas (literally, “Jesus son-of father”—Yeshua bar-Abbas).

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
It's disconcerting how few Christians actually follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Where's the love?

Luke 6:46-49
Why do you call me,'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say?

Everyone who comes to me, and hears my words, and does them, I will show you who he is like.

He is like a man building a house, who dug and went deep, and laid a ...[text shortened]... nst which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at naught thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judement seat of Christ.

Originally posted by josephw
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at naught thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judement seat of Christ.

I assure you I am a saved man. Christ died for me, to pay my sins debt. I am free from the penalty for sin... josephw

Look back at my last couple of posts. I have to believe that Jesus is saying otherwise. I hope you rethink your position.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b] I assure you I am a saved man. Christ died for me, to pay my sins debt. I am free from the penalty for sin... josephw

Look back at my last couple of posts. I have to believe that Jesus is saying otherwise. I hope you rethink your position.[/b]

Here is one I heard my Christian friend say to me a while ago. After that I must say I felt like banging my head against the wall.

"You see, my friend." He said. "There are many places in the Bible where Jesus actually says we should do certain things to be saved."

I waited. At last, after years of debate this friend of mine was actually admitting that faith alone was not enough.

"But there is one thing you are missing." he said.

"Missing?" I asked perplexed. What could I be missing? Jesus Himself says we must follow His teaching. "What am I missing?" I had to ask.

"What you are missing," he said smiling, "is that at the time Jesus said that, He was still alive. He had not yet died for our sins. So you see my friend, at that time we absolutely had to follow his teaching and faith alone was not going to do it. It is only after Jesus died for our sins that faith alone saves us."

You may now go hit your head against the wall!

Originally posted by josephw
If a man dies without excepting Christ as his saviour, and his sins are not forgiven, How can he come into the presence of a holy God?

If a man dies without excepting Christ as his saviour, and his sins are not forgiven, How can he come into the presence of a holy God? JOS

Yes , I think this is the key. I think it can be really useful to think of God's holiness as a consuming fire that will not tolerate impurities. OR a bit like the centre of a nuclear reactor. One would not enter a reator core without protective gear on. Jesus is in a way like a radiation suit for our unholiness , without him we cannot stand before God and expect to be acceptable. It's God's nature to repel against unholiness.

I also think that thinking of sin as separation (which I think is a hebrew translation of the word) is useful. We are separated from God and need to be joined with him again. Jesus talked about us becoming "one in him , just as he is at one with the father".

Another way of thinking about it is how do we go about becoming eternal if we are not? Surely we have to let eternity enter into us in order to be eternally with God. Is this not why we have to recieve the eternal Christ into our hearts? Unless God dies into death how do we rise from death to go to God?

If we start thinking about these things Jesus's sacrifice becomes a bit clearer.

Originally posted by Nemesio
You don't know? The Bible is pretty clear, and all of these people finished their earthly time before
Jesus.

How do you reconcile this?

Nemesio

They had faith in God's promise of a savior. And by faith it was credited to them as rightousness.

Originally posted by RBHILL
They had faith in God's promise of a savior. And by faith it was credited to them as rightousness.

So they did or didn't go to heaven before Jesus did His thing on earth?

Nemesio

Originally posted by knightmeister
If a man dies without excepting Christ as his saviour, and his sins are not forgiven, How can he come into the presence of a holy God? JOS

Yes , I think this is the key. I think it can be really useful to think of God's holiness as a consuming fire that will not tolerate impurities. OR a bit like the centre of a nuclear reactor. One would not enter God?

If we start thinking about these things Jesus's sacrifice becomes a bit clearer.

What does it mean to "accept" Christ as one's saviour? Is it enough to cry 'Lord, Lord' or even to "try" to follow what Christ teaches? Or does true acceptance entail full repentance and following the will of God? If one focuses on what Jesus says, the transformation is meant to happen here. No "radiation suit" required 🙂

Originally posted by Varqa
Here is one I heard my Christian friend say to me a while ago. After that I must say I felt like banging my head against the wall.

"You see, my friend." He said. "There are many places in the Bible where Jesus actually says we should do certain things to be saved."

I waited. At last, after years of debate this friend of mine was actually admitting that f sins that faith alone saves us."

You may now go hit your head against the wall!

The power of rationalization seems to have no bounds 🙁 Yet it can be overcome by love 🙂

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The power of rationalization seems to have no bounds 🙁 Yet it can be overcome by love 🙂

You took the words right out of my mout. 😉

Originally posted by Varqa
You took the words right out of my mout. 😉

I mean mouth!

You guys are getting slow to respond. I expected everyone to poke fun at me for the spelling issue.

Wake up.

Originally posted by knightmeister
If a man dies without excepting Christ as his saviour, and his sins are not forgiven, How can he come into the presence of a holy God? JOS

Yes , I think this is the key. I think it can be really useful to think of God's holiness as a consuming fire that will not tolerate impurities. OR a bit like the centre of a nuclear reactor. One would not enter ...[text shortened]... God?

If we start thinking about these things Jesus's sacrifice becomes a bit clearer.

The alternative viewpoint is that, since God is agape, and “our God is a consuming fire”—that the consuming fire is just that agape. What the consuming fire consumes is unholiness, and whatever is anti-agape.

It is not God’s nature to “repel” unholiness (where in the world could a God who will be all-in-all “repel” anything to?). It is God’s nature to remove/heal unholiness. God does not repel (nor coerce), but draw. There are worse things than to be drawn into that fire.

After all, it was not the “holy” that Jesus as the Christ (the logos incarnate) spent so much time with, but tax collectors and other sinners. He said, “I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to metanoia.” And: “The well have no need of a physician...”