1. Joined
    11 Jan '07
    Moves
    6857
    04 May '07 13:18
    Apparently the bible says the god sacrificed his son for mankind, as do many Christians I seem to come across. So I think the reason was to forgive mankind for its sins, my problem is what would have happened if he hadn’t have been sacrificial? Would we all have just dropped dead?
  2. Joined
    28 Feb '07
    Moves
    1295
    04 May '07 13:34
    Originally posted by 1WhiteKnight
    Apparently the bible says the god sacrificed his son for mankind, as do many Christians I seem to come across. So I think the reason was to forgive mankind for its sins, my problem is what would have happened if he hadn’t have been sacrificial? Would we all have just dropped dead?
    My friend...

    I think what would have happened was that we would have descended into darkness with no hope of salvation....cut off from God so to speak....Jesus is the bridge between God and us...
  3. Joined
    11 Jan '07
    Moves
    6857
    04 May '07 13:43
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    My friend...

    I think what would have happened was that we would have descended into darkness with no hope of salvation....cut off from God so to speak....Jesus is the bridge between God and us...
    and how does killing your son make that possible?
  4. Joined
    28 Feb '07
    Moves
    1295
    04 May '07 13:45
    Originally posted by 1WhiteKnight
    and how does killing your son make that possible?
    He SACRIFICED his son so he could pay for all our sins...
  5. Joined
    27 Sep '06
    Moves
    9651
    04 May '07 13:47
    Originally posted by 1WhiteKnight
    Apparently the bible says the god sacrificed his son for mankind, as do many Christians I seem to come across. So I think the reason was to forgive mankind for its sins, my problem is what would have happened if he hadn’t have been sacrificial? Would we all have just dropped dead?
    And remained separated from him for all eternity.
    It's a cold hard fact of reality that most people are unable to reconcile with.
    The very idea of people spending eternity in a lake of fire is repulsive even to me. It's unthinkable. For many it is a reason for rejecting the God of the bible. They say, 'how can a loving God send people to a place so tortuous'? They attribute the characteristics of someone evil to God not understanding the true nature of God.
  6. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    04 May '07 13:471 edit
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    He SACRIFICED his son so he could pay for all our sins...
    I've asked about it before in other threads but the Christians always go silent on me.

    Who exactly was he paying to again? And does that mean that we can buy our way into heaven?
  7. Joined
    11 Jan '07
    Moves
    6857
    04 May '07 13:57
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I've asked about it before in other threads but the Christians always go silent on me.

    Who exactly was he paying to again? And does that mean that we can buy our way into heaven?
    yes, "who was he paying?" was my next question.....
  8. Joined
    11 Jan '07
    Moves
    6857
    04 May '07 14:03
    Originally posted by josephw
    And remained separated from him for all eternity.
    It's a cold hard fact of reality that most people are unable to reconcile with.
    The very idea of people spending eternity in a lake of fire is repulsive even to me. It's unthinkable. For many it is a reason for rejecting the God of the bible. They say, 'how can a loving God send people to a place so tortuou ...[text shortened]... tribute the characteristics of someone evil to God not understanding the true nature of God.
    ok, if I may, can I just ask about this nature of god, he is quite happy to forgive a murderer of children (just an example of the top of my head) and indeed sacrificed his son to give this person the chance to ask forgiveness for his sins. He then says ok I will not send you to "the lake of fire" (I guess that’s hell) because you have asked forgiveness (via the bridge Jesus gave him????) and had faith in me. However the man next door who has never hurt even an ant in his life, has been a loving and caring person but is a strong atheist gets to go to the lake of fire because he doesn’t believe or have faith in god??
  9. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    04 May '07 14:092 edits
    Did any Christian Read Ezkial 18. It seems to me you are talking about another GOD other than the one who wrote this chapter. Read carfuly and think about what you said so far:


    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-1)(The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-2)(What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-3)(As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-4)(Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-5)(But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-6)(And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-7)(And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; )

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-8)(He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-9)(Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-10)(If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-11)(And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-12)(Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-13)(Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him )

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-14)(Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-15)(That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-16)(Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-17)(That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-18)(As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-19)(Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-20)(The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-21)(But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-22)(All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.)


    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-23)(Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-24)(But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-25)(Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-26)(When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.)

    [i](KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-27)(Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.)


    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-28)(Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-29)(Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-30)(Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-31)(Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-32)(For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.)

    [/i]

    I don't what are you talking about?
  10. Joined
    11 Jan '07
    Moves
    6857
    04 May '07 14:53
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Did any Christian Read Ezkial 18. It seems to me you are talking about another GOD other than the one who wrote this chapter. Read carfuly and think about what you said so far:


    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-1)(The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-2)(What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, say ...[text shortened]... D: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.)



    I don't what are you talking about?
    I also have no idea what I am talking about, so that makes both of us. You know what, maybe the reason I posted on here what I have was to put down my understanding of something (if that be right or wrong I make no assertion to either) and have people who do understand have it explained to me.
    So if anyone has got an explanation to my previous post rather than post some cut and pasted…well whatever that was above…then I’d be grateful.
  11. Joined
    28 Feb '07
    Moves
    1295
    04 May '07 14:55
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Did any Christian Read Ezkial 18. It seems to me you are talking about another GOD other than the one who wrote this chapter. Read carfuly and think about what you said so far:


    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-1)(The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,)

    (KJV)(Ezekiel)(Ez-18-2)(What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, say ...[text shortened]... D: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.)



    I don't what are you talking about?
    Whatever....😴
  12. Joined
    28 Feb '07
    Moves
    1295
    04 May '07 14:59
    Originally posted by 1WhiteKnight
    ok, if I may, can I just ask about this nature of god, he is quite happy to forgive a murderer of children (just an example of the top of my head) and indeed sacrificed his son to give this person the chance to ask forgiveness for his sins. He then says ok I will not send you to "the lake of fire" (I guess that’s hell) because you have asked forgiveness ...[text shortened]... trong atheist gets to go to the lake of fire because he doesn’t believe or have faith in god??
    Jesus said"The only way to the father is through me" or words to that effect....so if you are nice but dont believe that Jesus died for our sins then there is no way for you to reach the Lord.....if a killer truly,in his heart,repents and turns to God then he will be forgiven....if a non believer turns to God and then believes he will be welcomed....

    😀
  13. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    04 May '07 15:03
    Originally posted by 1WhiteKnight
    I also have no idea what I am talking about, so that makes both of us. You know what, maybe the reason I posted on here what I have was to put down my understanding of something (if that be right or wrong I make no assertion to either) and have people who do understand have it explained to me.
    So if anyone has got an explanation to my previous post rather than post some cut and pasted…well whatever that was above…then I’d be grateful.
    It seems you didn't understand what this chapter is talking about. this chapter is clearly aganist the idea of the sacrifice of sin. It clealy state that GOD forgive sins without the need to sacrifice his son.

    The chapter say no son carry the sin of his father. And every soul is responsible for its acts. So even if Jesus died on the cross, GOD said that will not carry the sin of any body.

    Is it clear.
  14. Joined
    11 Jan '07
    Moves
    6857
    04 May '07 15:07
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    Jesus said"The only way to the father is through me" or words to that effect....so if you are nice but dont believe that Jesus died for our sins then there is no way for you to reach the Lord.....if a killer truly,in his heart,repents and turns to God then he will be forgiven....if a non believer turns to God and then believes he will be welcomed....

    😀
    So in not reaching the Lord what?
  15. Joined
    28 Feb '07
    Moves
    1295
    04 May '07 15:09
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    It seems you didn't understand what this chapter is talking about. this chapter is clearly aganist the idea of the sacrifice of sin. It clealy state that GOD forgive sins without the need to sacrifice his son.

    The chapter say no son carry the sin of his father. And every soul is responsible for its acts. So even if Jesus died on the cross, GOD said that will not carry the sin of any body.

    Is it clear.
    ?
Back to Top