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    17 Sep '13 01:393 edits
    But why do atheists spend so much time in a spirituality forum? I don't have anything against atheists whatsoever, in fact I have more in common with some than I do with most theists.

    I've heard several arguments as to why they do, the most common I remember as being that many of them want to more or less, defend the freethinking world from the hateful Christians and chowder-headed religionists. Right. From the comfy confines of your armchair. It's interesting.

    In my time here I've also noted that there is rarely shown any human interest in theism nor especially of the individuals who frequent is forum or their reasons for becoming theists. There is no genuine enquiry of the human condition in regard to the reason to believe, the causality.

    I don't see anyone here saving the world from the theist or indeed saving the theist from themselves. I don't really see anything other than a mocking smugness often tinged with more than a hint of bitterness.

    This forum is by no measure a 'litmus test' for the validity of any spiritual experience, religion or ideology. At best it is an online poor man's Speakers Corner and at worst it the playground we all grew up in. So if you are a confirmed atheist, why bother. It is interesting.
  2. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    17 Sep '13 01:55
    Originally posted by divegeester
    But why do atheists spend so much time in a spirituality forum? I don't have anything against atheists whatsoever, in fact I have more in common with some than I do with most theists.

    I've heard several arguments as to why they do, the most common I remember as being that many of them want to more or less, defend the freethinking world from the hatefu ...[text shortened]... nd we all grew up in. So if you are a confirmed atheist, why bother. It is interesting.
    In my online experience, since 2007, many avowed atheists here and elsewhere remind me of Doubting Thomas: highly intelligent, well read and thoughtful people with questions that won't be satisfied by superficial answers. I respect them.
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    17 Sep '13 02:111 edit
    I don't disagree with the observation you are making, however the smilie of Thomas is not entirely appropriate as Thomas was a disciple and already part of the faith; he is more representative of the doubting believer than an atheist, in fact I'm pretty sure most atheists wouldn't admit to identifying with Thomas in this scenario, at least not openly.
  4. Standard memberwoodypusher
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    17 Sep '13 02:281 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    But why do atheists spend so much time in a spirituality forum? I don't have anything against atheists whatsoever, in fact I have more in common with some than I do with most theists.

    I've heard several arguments as to why they do, the most common I remember as being that many of them want to more or less, defend the freethinking world from the hatefu nd we all grew up in. So if you are a confirmed atheist, why bother. It is interesting.
    Mocking smugness? Hint of bitterness?

    Surely you're speaking of RJHinds spending so much time in the science forum, spewing his ignorance and defending the closed-minded world from the evil, godless freethinkers from the comfy confines of his armchair. Yes, interesting.
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    17 Sep '13 02:421 edit
    Originally posted by woodypusher
    Mocking smugness? Hint of bitterness?

    Surely you're speaking of RJHinds spending so much time in the science forum, spewing his ignorance and defending the closed-minded world from the evil, godless freethinkers from the comfy confines of his armchair. Yes, interesting.
    RJHinds is hardly representative of this forum by any stretch, and as far as I'm aware is the sole voice of dissent in the Science forum. So obviously I'm not referring to him, however if you are noticing a comparison between his behaviour there and the atheist community here, then I would be happy to explore that with you.
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    17 Sep '13 02:452 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester

    I don't disagree with the observation you are making, however the smilie of Thomas is not entirely appropriate as Thomas was a disciple and already part of the faith; he is more representative of the doubting believer than an atheist, in fact I'm pretty sure most atheists wouldn't admit to identifying with Thomas in this scenario, at least not openly.
    "I don't disagree with the observation you are making, however the smilie of Thomas is not entirely appropriate as Thomas was a disciple and already part of the faith..."

    "A doubting Thomas is a skeptic who refuses to believe without direct personal experience—a reference to the Apostle Thomas, who refused to believe that the resurrected Jesus had appeared to the eleven other apostles, until he could see and feel the wounds received by Jesus on the cross. The episode is related in the Gospel of John, though not in the three synoptic Gospels." (wiki) (King James Version) text (John 20:24-29) is:

    24. But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27. Then saith He to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. 29. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

    Intent of the reference was to illustrate skepticism in seeking the truth.
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    17 Sep '13 02:531 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "I don't disagree with the observation you are making, however the smilie of Thomas is not entirely appropriate as Thomas was a disciple and already part of the faith..."

    "A doubting Thomas is a skeptic who refuses to believe without direct personal experience—a reference to the Apostle Thomas, who refused to believe that the resurrected Jesus had a seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
    I disagree, Thomas was already converted, his disbelief was centred around the claim of someone witnessing the risen Christ. Wiki's description of a "doubting Thomas" is an irrelevancy, but I think you already know that. Nevertheless I respect your right to express your opinion that the atheists posting in this forum are typified by the disciple Thomas; I will be interested to see if they or others agree.

    Edit: I see that you edited out your claim regarding Thomas' conversion whilst I was writing.
  8. Standard memberwoodypusher
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    17 Sep '13 02:541 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    RJHinds is hardly representative of this forum by any stretch, and as far as I'm aware is the sole voice of dissent in the Science forum. So obviously I'm not referring to him, however if you are noticing a comparison between his behaviour there and the atheist community here, then I would be happy to explore that with you.
    Yes, obviously I knew you weren't referring to him.. I was being sarcastic, merely pointing out the hypocrisy of this thread.

    As far as his behavior there and atheists here, there is no real comparison. Atheists try to educate, Hinds tries to ignorate.

    *Yes, I made that word up. I couldn't thing of an antonym for educate 🙂
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    17 Sep '13 02:563 edits
    Originally posted by woodypusher
    Yes, obviously I knew you weren't referring to him.. I was being sarcastic, merely pointing out the hypocrisy of this thread.
    A thread can't be hypocritical itself but the poster can, shall I assume you think I'm being hypocritical in my OP on the basis that RJHinds is an irritation in the Science forum?

    To your edit: I agree there is no comparison. In fact the atheist viewpoint in this forum is most welcome, and I'm sure I speak for the majority of posting theists here (irrespective of the observations in my OP).
  10. Standard memberwoodypusher
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    17 Sep '13 03:06
    Originally posted by divegeester
    A thread can't be hypocritical itself but the poster can, shall I assume you think I'm being hypocritical in my OP on the basis that RJHinds is an irritation in the Science forum?
    Assume anything you want. But the hypocrisy I was pointing out was your one-sided complaint about atheists.
  11. Standard memberwoodypusher
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    17 Sep '13 03:08
    Originally posted by divegeester
    A thread can't be hypocritical itself but the poster can, shall I assume you think I'm being hypocritical in my OP on the basis that RJHinds is an irritation in the Science forum?

    To your edit: I agree there is no comparison. In fact the atheist viewpoint in this forum is most welcome, and I'm sure I speak for the majority of posting theists here.
    If the atheist viewpoint is most welcome, why do you care why they spend so much time here?
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    17 Sep '13 03:10
    Originally posted by woodypusher
    Assume anything you want. But the hypocrisy I was pointing out was your one-sided complaint about atheists.
    It isn't a complaint, it is a personal observation. I welcome your disagreement but I think you may be being a little unessesarily defensive.
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    17 Sep '13 03:13
    Originally posted by woodypusher
    If the atheist viewpoint is most welcome, why do you care why they spend so much time here?
    I'm not complaining that atheists post in this forum, I am a believer in free speech. I am making an observation based on much (but by no means all) of the content and the tone of many of the posts.
  14. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    17 Sep '13 03:161 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I disagree, Thomas was already converted, his disbelief was centred around the claim of someone witnessing the risen Christ. Wiki's description of a "doubting Thomas" is an irrelevancy, but I think you already know that. Nevertheless I respect your right to express your opinion that the atheists posting in this forum are typified by the disciple Thomas; ...[text shortened]... dit: I see that you edited out your claim regarding Thomas' conversion whilst I was writing.
    Edit: Yes, realized it was off topic, extraneous and irrelevant. Healthy Skepticism is the characteristic I respect because it's a positive component of someone's search in any realm, irrespective of predispositions or hang ups or tentative beliefs.
  15. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Sep '13 03:56
    Originally posted by divegeester
    In my time here I've also noted that there is rarely shown any human interest in theism nor especially of the individuals who frequent is forum or their reasons for becoming theists.
    Some theists here have obliquely mentioned personal experiences that cement their faith, but they are understandably reluctant to talk about them with a bunch of strangers. Also, there was once a skeptic admitting doubt and fear of death, but they got immediately flooded with the usual, evangelical 'turn to Jesus and it'll all be OK!' crap.
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