I think He over reacted

A rather callous thing to say I think:

Mathew 8

And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

And what's in store for the people in the cities that don't accept Jesus words of wisdom:

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

What the Hell we all know what happened to Sodom and Gomorra and why it happened. This time all it takes is not accepting Jesus words and the fate of those cities will be even worst! I think he's clearly over reacting.

Why do we all have to die?

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
...
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

We all have to die because Adam sinned. One man sinned, now all of humanity has to pay. Now all of humanity as to suffer. I think I'm drowning in so much love...

Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

Apparently if you murmur you're going down. 😕 Am I the only thinking this a little bit of an exaggeration on the part of God? I'll just leave it on my back burner and see If can get it later on, I gues... 😕

What to do when in sin? Let us read the Bible:

For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Just spill the blood of an innocent animal.
And cheer up everybody! If the blood of an animal has some kind of a cleansing power just imagine the healing power of Christ's blood!

Jesus on the OT

...if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
1But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Here Jesus approves of the punishments of the OT and even says that people that don't listen to him will suffer a great deal more.
A sociopath of a blackmailing bully if I ever saw one in action.

Originally posted by adam warlock
It is your problem because you are obviously entering the path of a very visible double standard. Killing unborn children (and the debate still rages on when life really begins) is bad but killing children is justified. Burning people to death because they protested is justified. Stoning children to death is justified.

And I don't see any reason to b ...[text shortened]... I just say that he has a lot of explaining to do. A real lot of explaining to do.

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Why does your God order the killing of raped women for not screaming loud enough?
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Where did God command rape in the Bible? I need an unambigous command that certain women were to be raped.

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Why does your God that says that He creates everything can't love homosexuals?
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Where did is say God did not love a homosexual?

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Why does your God brags about his constants bouts of bravado and machismo?
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Where's that ?

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Why does your God demands total subjugation and constant self-humiliation?
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Show me an instance. What's your example ?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]===============================
Why does your God order the killing of raped women for not screaming loud enough?
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Where did God command rape in the Bible? I need an unambigous command that certain women were to be raped.

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Why does your God that says that n?
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Show me an instance. What's your example ?[/b]

I didn't say that God commanded rape in the Bible I said that it was God's law that if a women were to be raped she should be put to death for not screaming loud enough.
Since I like you here it is:

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Rather harsh, don't you think?

And the question on homosexuality can only be some kind of a sick joke, but I'll answer it anyway:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
...

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Homophobic and misogynistic at the same time.The natural use of women is to be sexed up by men 😵 🙄, and if men fail to comply to that they deserve to die.

And also:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

The last two questions I won't even answer cause frankly I just think they are way too ridiculous. Way too ridiculous!

Jaywill, do you believe the bible has to be taken litterally, or is there some room for interpretation ?

Originally posted by adam warlock
And Jesus is down with that!

4For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. [b]Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

[/b]

Jesus is not "down" with that in the Bible. Let's look at the whole passage:

1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

A) Pharisees and scribes ask why do Jesus disciples not follow tradition.

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

B) Jesus points out that they also do not follow tradition, only those that appear still valid to them.

A+B => Jesus points out that tradition is not authority by itself.

Why would he defend his disciples break of tradition by defending a tradition that the scribes and Pharisees do not follow? Doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by Palynka
Jesus is not "down" with that. Let's look at the whole passage

1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

A) Pharisees and scribes ask why do Jesus disciples not follow tradition.

3 But he ans efending a tradition that the scribes and Pharisees do not follow? Doesn't make sense to me.

Read it with care. What Jesus says is that his followers break the law of men while the ones that are admonishing him break the law of God. He also says that the law of God is a lot more important and ends with this statement:

Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

This is what you should know if you have looked into the hole passage.

Originally posted by adam warlock
Read it with care. What Jesus says is that his followers break the law of men while the ones that are admonishing him break the law of God. He also says that the law of God is a lot more important and ends with this statement:

[b]Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

This is what you should know if you have looked into the hole passage.[/b]

I read it with care. Which one do you reject A or B?

Also, the washing of the hands comes from Leviticus and was not a "law of men" for the Jews of the time. It was a religious requirement.

Originally posted by Palynka
I read it with care. Which one do you reject A or B?

Also, the washing of the hands comes from Leviticus and was not a "law of men" for the Jews of the time. It was a religious requirement.

I reject "A+B => Jesus points out that tradition is not authority by itself"
What Jesus points out in here (just like many places in the Bible) is that there is the law of men and there is the law of God. And just like many other places of the Bible he says that following the law of God is what should be done.

And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

This juxtaposition indicates that Jesus saw the act of washing hands before eating as a law of unlike the stoning of children, which was a law of God.
Where in Leviticus you see that people should wash their hands before eating? I don't remember seeing it and I made a quick read now and couldn't find it either.

Originally posted by adam warlock
I reject "A+B => Jesus points out that tradition is not authority by itself"
What Jesus points out in here (just like many places in the Bible) is that there is the law of men and there is the law of God. And just like many other places of the Bible he says that following the law of God is what should be done.

[quote]And honour not his father or his ...[text shortened]... eating? I don't remember seeing it and I made a quick read now and couldn't find it either.

Why are you repeating yourself?

A) Pharisees and scribes ask why do Jesus disciples not follow tradition.
B) Jesus points out that they also do not follow tradition, only those that appear still valid to them.

How can you accept A and B yet reject they imply Jesus points out that tradition is not an authority by itself? Seriously, man, you're blind when it comes to this. How is B a defense against A if not by that?

Originally posted by Palynka
Why are you repeating yourself?

A) Pharisees and scribes ask why do Jesus disciples not follow tradition.
B) Jesus points out that they also do not follow tradition, only those that appear still valid to them.

How can you accept A and B yet reject they imply Jesus points out that tradition is not an authority by itself? Seriously, man, you're blind when it comes to this. How is B a defense against A if not by that?

If you want to label me as blind just be my guest, but don't blame for not falling for your fallacy.
Jesus don't say that they don't follow tradition: Jesus says that they don't follow the commandment of God. He uses the word tradition when speaking about washing hands and uses the word commandment when speaking about stoning children.

It's not my fault that you don't know how to read.
It's not my fault that you don't know the usual attitude of Jesus when it comes to what men says and what God says.

If you want to see the biblical Jesus as the super-mega-moral man, then just don't look at my posts.
Just like any other human being he had failings and that's all that I'm doing: pointing to his failings.

Ps: I still haven't had the time to read Leviticus, but from the quick read I gave I couldn't find anything that talked about washing hands before eating. Can you please quote it.

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Got it? Rude words from children to their parents defile the children and they have to be punished. Not washing the hands before eating doesn't defile a man.

Just like I said if you had already read this with care you'd know it.

Originally posted by adam warlock
If you want to label me as blind just be my guest, but don't blame for not falling for your fallacy.
Jesus don't say that they don't follow tradition: Jesus says that they don't follow the commandment of God. He uses the word tradition when speaking about washing hands and uses the word commandment when speaking about stoning children.

It's not my f

Just like I said if you had already read this [b]with care you'd know it.[/b]

LOL, don't blame me for falling for your ridiculous repetition.

You read out of context and keep quoting out of context and believe you are correct. You're a fool. Religion is used and abused by people who do the same.

Jesus says that they don't follow the commandment of God.
And where does he say that is "bad"? He is basically saying that some laws are void. You only have to look at the way he acts to stop the stoning of Mary Magdalene to see that he doesn't follow the commandments blindingly.

If you want to see the biblical Jesus as the super-mega-moral man, then just don't look at my posts.
Now you're being pathetic. I even lean to the "man" not even having existed. BUT if you want to misrepresent passages to further your agenda against Christianity I'm not going to be duped into ridiculous interpretations.

Can I quote Leviticus? Maybe you should learn about the history of religious beliefs, so you understand how the Jews of the time (not ME or you) justified their washing rituals.

I don't know how you go from your second quote to supporting stoning of children. But I guess everything goes.

Sad.

Originally posted by Palynka
LOL, don't blame me for falling for your ridiculous repetition.

You read out of context and keep quoting out of context and believe you are correct. You're a fool. Religion is used and abused by people who do the same.

[b]Jesus says that they don't follow the commandment of God.
And where does he say that is "bad"? He is basically saying that s ...[text shortened]... second quote to supporting stoning of children. But I guess everything goes.

Sad.[/b]

I can't do nothing more than repeat myself and quote. I don't know how I'm out of context too. I provided the link for the full thing. I provided a few more quotes from the link. And somehow, some way I'm out of context.

What would be being in context then? The out of context claim is just pure intellectual laziness unless you say what the context is, you know?

Now I'm a fool. Ok. Excuse me for knowing to discern what's implicit on a text. And the thing is that it isn't that implicit. Just read the hole thing and then come and lecture me on its meaning.

He's not basically saying that some laws are void. That's what he's saying:

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

If you know the meaning of the word defile here's the answer to your question: "And where does he say that is "bad"?". Very simple indeed for anyone that knows how to read.

You think that there wasn't a Jesus, that was a shoe maker and got the ball rolling on a new kind of sect? I definitely think that there was such a man, but the level of fabrication that happened after he died was just immense.

Will you quote Leviticus or not? The answer to this question will be a measure of how interested you are in this.

And where does he say that is "bad"?

In the following:

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

The tone is quite clear.

If you think that the episode of Mary Madgdalene is more telling than that's just an opinion. I never said this is that Jesus always acts in this way. What I said is that in this time Jesus condoned the stoning of disobedient children. And he just did for anyone that knows how to read. You don't want to read this in here, than tha's your choice, but it doesn't change the facts.

Is that good enough of context to you?

Adam, i warn you, stop this blasphemy, lest you want God to smite you as he did for his enemies !

1 Samuel xv, 3 : This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'

Psalm 137 : Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!

(sorry if those were already cited, i didn't read all the post!)

Originally posted by shorbock
Adam, i warn you, stop this blasphemy, lest you want God to smite you as he did for his enemies !

[b]1 Samuel xv, 3 : This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'

Psalm 137 : Bles ...[text shortened]... hem against the rock!

(sorry if those were already cited, i didn't read all the post!)[/b]

Hey, you're cherry picking passages and on top of that you're quoting them out of context!

😵

Ps: And not only will He smite me, but he He'll also damn my children into the third and forth generation (even though they obviously have no fault and I'm the only one to blame for these heresies).