1. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Feb '12 20:13
    If a god existed, it would view the universe at large perhaps as its special domain, but IMHO this god would never need to force adulation, make rules, commandments, or any of the other obviously man made attributes we give to this god.

    This god would oversee intelligent life forms on millions of planets in the universe and would not consider one superior to another, it could at any time it so chose, introduce us to any one or all of the rest. It would know which ones of these possible space faring races would be deadly to us and keep them apart from us if it was interested in seeing how we develop in isolation from other space faring races.

    I can even see this god blasting the Earth a few times to guide evolution to favor the creation of humans but in no way would this god look like us since in my view there would be millions of other intelligent races in our universe this god would be overseeing.

    To think this god would raise us as the pinnacle of creation is IMHO an assumption that is arrogant in the extreme, for instance, if my view is correct and there are in the sum total of our universe, millions of other intelligent species, then there would naturally be a spectrum of intelligence. Perhaps we are close to the top, perhaps we are close to the bottom of that universal intelligence scale, perhaps each race would have to have its intelligence defined for that race only.

    However we fit on that scale, this god could be seen in the light of a curator of a zoo or museum, like all the animals in the zoo, the curator may have favorites and such but it would never say, THIS ONE is the number one life form in my view, maybe there would be some approaching godhood themselves, but clearly we are not by any stretch of the imagination approaching godhood and that includes all the Hindu and Buddhist monks contemplating on the top of mountains and the shaman of the village or the Pope. We are at our level which includes deception, war, murder, rape, as well as incomprehensible acts of kindness and empathy, a very mixed bag.

    So even on our own level we have levels so such a god as I envision would therefore be more likely to look on some higher developed individuals as obviously spiritually superior but that would not engender this god to bring that person up to something like the godly level we assume such a god would have.

    We would be more like one more experiment that will run its course, come what may, with no intervention unless it deems us worthy of revival from some overwhelming natural disaster, like a comet crashing into Earth. If that just left one percent alive to rebuild, then this god would not save the rest, but allow nature to take its course and to allow evolution to either run us to extinction or for us to be one link to a life form on Earth on a somewhat higher plane.

    Perhaps this next level of humans on Earth won't be so bloodthirsty or blindly follow what are clearly man made religions but rely more on their own reasoning power unfettered by the blindness of faith and entertain their flights of creative fancy and curiosity about the universe around us.

    That could yet be the fate of humans, all with no intervention of this god, whom we would have no need of worshiping, since to be worshiped or not to be worshiped would have exactly the same consequences, no intervention in human affairs unless this god had decided the planet itself was the object to keep in the goldilocks zone of habitability and it might intervene if we would be so stupid as to screw up the planet so bad the bio diversity would be destroyed, maybe then this god would intervene, but not for humanities sake, but for the sake of the planet.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
  2. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    22 Feb '12 20:36
    Originally posted by sonhouse

    If a god existed, it would view the universe at large perhaps as its special domain, but IMHO this god would never need to force adulation, make rules, commandments, or any of the other obviously man made attributes we give to this god.

    This god would oversee intelligent life forms on millions of planets in the universe and would not consider one supe ...[text shortened]... humanities sake, but for the sake of the planet.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    Agree with your lead in sentence. "This god would never need to force adulation." Why? Because He respects human selfhood and is incapable of coercing free will.



    .
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Feb '12 20:401 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Agree with your lead in sentence. "This god would never need to force adulation." Why? Because He respects human selfhood and is incapable of coercing free will.



    .
    Also, this god would never try to trick us into believing the universe to be whatever, 6000, 10000 years old when anyone with even a half open mind can see quite clearly it has to be thousands of times older, and therefore, it is up to us to suss out just what is going on in the universe. Perhaps that is the test this god sets up for us, how well we figure it all out. So the universe is really 13 or 14 billion years old, the Earth is really some 4 billion and change old, the ice cores really show climate data for hundreds of thousands of years, there really are plants just discovered that have been revived after 30,000 years and so forth.

    Maybe this god blew up the universe like a rubber balloon, maybe it just set up the conditions before hand that would, it knew, lead to the big bang of our universe. Or whatever we suss out in the next few hundred years as to the real beginnings of our universe and this god uses random chemical reactions it doesn't really want to control any more than a high school science classmate would want to count every bubble in a boiling flask of acid to see what happens to the reaction.

    So it just uses these random occurrences of chemicals to go from non-life to sort of life to real life over a period of perhaps a billion years and perhaps that sort of thing happened many times over, the whole thing dies out, maybe better conditions the next round lets the next batch evolve a bit further, and so forth until billions of years later, HERE WE IS, trying to figure it all out and no tricks.
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Feb '12 20:42
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    If a god existed, it would view the universe at large perhaps as its special domain, but IMHO this god would never need to force adulation, make rules, commandments, or any of the other obviously man made attributes we give to this god.

    This god would oversee intelligent life forms on millions of planets in the universe and would not consider one superi ...[text shortened]... humanities sake, but for the sake of the planet.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    I'm quite sure you thought this out if God acted and thought like you do.
    Kelly
  5. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Feb '12 20:481 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I'm quite sure you thought this out if God acted and thought like you do.
    Kelly
    So show me reality without having to depend on an ancient book.....

    BTW, I did not copy and paste a single word, the words written were entirely mine as well as any mistakes...
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Feb '12 20:55
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So show me reality without having to depend on an ancient book.....
    Think back to all of our conversation, with the exception where the topic is
    scripture do I bring it up to prove my points? You and others do, or you will
    ask me questions about scripture and then that is what we start talking about.
    If you'd leave scripture out of our conversations and others did too, only
    those scripture centered threads would have scripture in them with perhaps
    a few exceptions.

    I would even point out what I said to you in this thread wasn't dependent
    upon scripture. I'm sure from time to time you'll see things I have said that
    are scripture based, but since I know you reject it I don't quote it. I'd put to you
    too that asking me to leave all scriptural points out of my thoughts would be
    like you being asked to leave your work life experiences out of yours.
    Kelly
  7. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Feb '12 20:56
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So show me reality without having to depend on an ancient book.....

    BTW, I did not copy and paste a single word, the words written were entirely mine as well as any mistakes...
    Do you think I had to look up what I wrote to you in this thread, or that I
    ever do that unless I'm quoting someone?
    Kelly
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Feb '12 20:59
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Also, this god would never try to trick us into believing the universe to be whatever, 6000, 10000 years old when anyone with even a half open mind can see quite clearly it has to be thousands of times older, and therefore, it is up to us to suss out just what is going on in the universe. Perhaps that is the test this god sets up for us, how well we figure ...[text shortened]... so forth until billions of years later, HERE WE IS, trying to figure it all out and no tricks.
    Why do you insist that God is trying to trick you? I have pointed out to
    you that God informed us what He did from the beginning by the Holy Bible.
    So it must be someone else that is trying to trick you. Don't you think?
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Feb '12 21:143 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Why do you insist that God is trying to trick you? I have pointed out to
    you that God informed us what He did from the beginning by the Holy Bible.
    So it must be someone else that is trying to trick you. Don't you think?
    Perhaps you then. It's you who keeps insisting beyond all reason, that the Earth is 10,000 years old in spite of billions of bits of data otherwise. You are locking out the reasoning portion of your brain in your blind trust of your religion.

    So that is the sum total of your rebuttal? I think god is tricking me? How much of my op did you read?

    BTW, there are many many other books with totally different creation myths that are considered just as holy as the book you revere. It's just one of hundreds of such books, nothing special about it, except in your head.
  10. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Feb '12 22:46
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Perhaps you then. It's you who keeps insisting beyond all reason, that the Earth is 10,000 years old in spite of billions of bits of data otherwise. You are locking out the reasoning portion of your brain in your blind trust of your religion.

    So that is the sum total of your rebuttal? I think god is tricking me? How much of my op did you read?

    BTW, th ...[text shortened]... evere. It's just one of hundreds of such books, nothing special about it, except in your head.
    RJ, here is one thing about those laws you thought were broken, vis a vis the speed of light:

    http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-faster-neutrinos-faulty-wiring.html
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Feb '12 22:56
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Perhaps you then. It's you who keeps insisting beyond all reason, that the Earth is 10,000 years old in spite of billions of bits of data otherwise. You are locking out the reasoning portion of your brain in your blind trust of your religion.

    So that is the sum total of your rebuttal? I think god is tricking me? How much of my op did you read?

    BTW, th ...[text shortened]... evere. It's just one of hundreds of such books, nothing special about it, except in your head.
    Funny thing about those billion pieces of data, they are not speaking and
    telling you I mean this or that, your assigning meaning to them. So if you
    are looking at data and getting it wrong it isn't due to the data but your
    assumptions that are wrong.
    Kelly
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Feb '12 22:57
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Perhaps you then. It's you who keeps insisting beyond all reason, that the Earth is 10,000 years old in spite of billions of bits of data otherwise. You are locking out the reasoning portion of your brain in your blind trust of your religion.

    So that is the sum total of your rebuttal? I think god is tricking me? How much of my op did you read?

    BTW, th ...[text shortened]... evere. It's just one of hundreds of such books, nothing special about it, except in your head.
    Notice you are bringing in creation myths into this discussion and holy books.
    Kelly
  13. Standard memberAgerg
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    22 Feb '12 23:521 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Funny thing about those billion pieces of data, they are not speaking and
    telling you I mean this or that, your assigning meaning to them. So if you
    are looking at data and getting it wrong it isn't due to the data but your
    assumptions that are wrong.
    Kelly
    Yep...doesn't matter how incalculably unfeasible it would be to suppose that the implications of all these bits of data are a mere conspiracy, an almighty coincidence of errant interpretation...

    If it contradicts the talking snake theory of mans' origin we must stand firm to the charge that the scientists are reading it all wrong!
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    23 Feb '12 00:58
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    If a god existed, it would view the universe at large perhaps as its special domain, but IMHO this god would never need to force adulation, make rules, commandments, or any of the other obviously man made attributes we give to this god.

    This god would oversee intelligent life forms on millions of planets in the universe and would not consider one superi ...[text shortened]... humanities sake, but for the sake of the planet.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    I second the thumbs up for this post. It would be much healthier if we just describe the deity we think is worthy of the designation and whose existence seems most plausible given what we know and think about the world -- even if some people find this presumptive -- compared to spending time finding fault with the deity described by others, or prescribing to them what their god should be like.
  15. Subscribersonhouse
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    23 Feb '12 02:13
    Originally posted by JS357
    I second the thumbs up for this post. It would be much healthier if we just describe the deity we think is worthy of the designation and whose existence seems most plausible given what we know and think about the world -- even if some people find this presumptive -- compared to spending time finding fault with the deity described by others, or prescribing to them what their god should be like.
    If a man or woman tells us what their god is like, there is a 100% probability of that god being totally made up by those people. Like Paul. He wanted a religion that would capture Romans, promising miracles and so forth. Zip, now there are miracles, 50 years, 100 years after Jesus, who would no doubt have had nothing to do with Paul's ambitions. So here we are 2000 odd years later, where people are still totally duped into believing the same tales and myths, here in the supposedly enlightened 21st century. It doesn't bode well for the continuation of mankind.
    `
    Till we shuck the sham of organized religions and grow up as a race we don't deserve to survive the coming confrontation with climate change, maybe nuclear war, it looks right now it's only a matter of time before Israel attacks the nuke facility in Iran and that may be a big mistake. Yet what happens if Iran gets nukes?

    It seems more than co-incidental there are these two countries at loggerheads and they just happen to be on the opposite side of the fence religiously speaking. You think your god would want that?

    Perhaps your god is insane enough to DEMAND this coming conflict, which has been going on, seething for a thousand years.

    All this is a sure sign the whole god thing is strictly man made, unless of course, your god is really bonkers insane, demanding no other gods before it and such. That to me is another sure sign of a man made religion, totally man made.

    That is one of my main points, a god would be above the need for that kind of idolatry. Your 'god' demands just too much human like attributes to be a real god.
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