Originally posted by KingOnPointPlease dont post any more. You are just repeating the same nonsense over and over without understanding.
RajK,
I hope to post more another time, but you seem to be missing that good works will not get anyone to heaven. Good works are not for getting people to heaven. Christ alone is the way. It is clear in scripture that a person does not need to do good works to get to heaven. You and I will never be able please a sinless God with our own righteo ...[text shortened]... er prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
Does your doctrine include the importance of good works? You are ignoring Christ. Please stop posting verse after verse, that is a sure sign that you lack understanding.
Have you read what Christ said about eternal life and how to get it?
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Originally posted by Rajk999
So far you have quoted no references which support your claim that you have to be saved in order to do good works.
I would be interested in seeing such a statement or implication from Jesus or the Apostles.
You have been shown before on this forum.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works that no one should boast.
For we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before hand in order that we would walk in them." (Eph. 2:8-10)
1.) The believer's being saved is not of works. There is nothing for the believer to boast in for the gift of God has saved him.
2.) Being saved he is now a part of the masterpiece of God, a corporate church of people walking in good works which God prepared for them to walk in beforehand.
Now that they are "created in Christ Jesus" the new life in Christ empowers them to walk in those good works. The believing sinners saved by grace and by gift were "created in Christ Jesus ... FOR ... good works."
Originally posted by sonship[b]So far you have quoted no references which support your claim that you have to be saved in order to do good works.
I would be interested in seeing such a statement or implication from Jesus or the Apostles.
You have been shown before on this forum.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselv ...[text shortened]... inners saved by grace and by gift were [b]"created in Christ Jesus ... FOR ... good works." [/b]You have been shown this before on this forum that Christ said that the way to eternal life is through love and charity.
You have been shown before that James said
Faith without works is dead.
That faith alone cannot save a man.
Originally posted by Rajk999So are you saying that the apostle to the Gentiles is lying?
You have been shown this before on this forum that Christ said that the way to eternal life is through love and charity.
You have been shown before that James said
Faith without works is dead.
That faith alone cannot save a man.
Originally posted by RJHindsYou guys are both cut from the same cloth.
So are you saying that the apostle to the Gentiles is lying?
Originally posted by Rajk999
Are you saying Christ and James and John are lying?
You think your personal favorite verse or chapter is the be all end all of the Bible. The entire scripture needs to be taken as a whole.
No one has the only correct personal insight into the truth. It is all opinion. And you know what they say, everyone has one. We are all guided by the Holy Spirit to certain sections of the scripture to gain insight to truth which affects us. To assume that this is the only truth for everyone is vanity.
Originally posted by Rajk999Certainly not, but neither is the apostle Paul who said,
Are you saying Christ and James and John are lying?
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
(Romans 4:5 NASB)
It is the faith that is the most important thing, not the works a man does. Certainly you are not saying you have the ability to work your way to heaven. What great works did the the thief on the cross beside Jesus do to cause Jesus to say he would be with Him in paradise? Without faith one can not please God no matter how much good works he does. So I believe you are misunderstanding Christ, James, and John.
RajK,
God cannot lie according to the bible. So when Christ said to Nicodemus that he must be born again, and when Christ said that the person who does not believe in Him is condemned already He could not be lying. Therefore, when Christ says to do good works, it isn't because a person can be saved by doing them. Thus, a person can do all the so-called, "good works" he or she wants, but that person who depends on them to get him or her to heaven is "condemned already."
Christ, Paul, and James do not disagree. Works show that a person who already has faith in Christ for salvation, proves his faith by doing good works. And even then, the good works are not the "Law of God." They are what Christ Himself wants of us. The Apostles decided that a person does not need to keep the "Law of God" given to Israel.
Read Acts 15: 1 - 35
RajK,
How many good works did the thief on the cross do to get into heaven? He was stuck on the cross until he died. Yet, Christ told him that he would be with Christ in Paradise. Christ did not tell him that he must do good works to make it into heaven. And the thief was not even baptized.
Everyone,
If the Jewish Pharisees and Sadducees were given the "Law of God" and were not saved through the "Law of God," why then did Christ try to correct them? Why were certain people that Pharisees sought to proselytize two fold more a child of hell than the Pharisees? If Christ is not the Savior, then why did he waste his sacrifice to save sinners? Why did he shed his blood for our sins? Why did he take our sins on Himself?
Why don't the keepers of the "Law of God" continually sacrifice animals so that their blood can cover their sins? If Christ's sacrifice meant nothing for eternity, then why did He sacrifice Himself? Enoch may not have suffered death and Elijah did not suffer death before they left this earth. The Israeltes still wait for the Messiah to come. So, why did Christ have to die? He laid down His life on purpose; His life was not taken from Him.
King James Version
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John 10: 18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Matthew 26: 53, 54
Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
Originally posted by KingOnPointIf you want people to answer your questions you have to slow down and make small concise posts. If you just want to play preacher and talk without caring for a response then proceed.
Everyone,
If the Jewish Pharisees and Sadducees were given the "Law of God" and were not saved through the "Law of God," why then did Christ try to correct them? Why were certain people that Pharisees sought to proselytize two fold more a child of hell than the Pharisees? If Christ is not the Savior, then why did he waste his sacrifice to save si ...[text shortened]... elve legions of angels?
But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
IF we have to do good works to go to heaven, how many good works do we need to do? Did Christ tell anyone at all how many good works to do to get into heaven? Why would the amount of good works a person has to do to get into heaven depend on who that person was? Is that fair for all people to have different amounts of good works to do before they can get into heaven.
People die. Some die as babies. How many good works has a baby done to go to heaven? A baby can't even talk or understand until he or she learns. So, how many aborted babies are in hell now because they did not keep the "Law of God?" In fact, they did not even know there was even a God. How many people born with mental problems will go to hell because they did not keep the "Law of God?" How many people will go to hell because they did not do enough good works to get to heaven before they died?
King James Version
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Romans 3: 21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Romans 2: 11, 12, 16
For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. . .
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
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Good works are not the way to go to heaven. Christ is the way. Will you be a person who rejects Christ and depends on the "Law of God" given to the Israelites to get to heaven? Will you be someone who tries to go to God in an improper way and gets rejected and cast into the lake of fire?
John 14: 6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Matthew 22: 10-14
So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
For many are called, but few are chosen.
Rajk and All,
I do want you all to consider the bible which includes the words of Christ. I don't know how to respond because I don't know your minds. I do care that everyone of you go to heaven.
If you all want to break down the bible verses and answer specific points, go right ahead. We who ignore the wrong parts of the bible will be pay an eternal price. There can be people who will be cast into a lake wth fire and brimstone. That includes the "unbelieving." Will you be someone who is unbelieving?
King James Version
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The Revelation 21: 8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Originally posted by KingOnPointYour way of following Christ is to say:
Rajk and All,
I do want you all to consider the bible which includes the words of Christ. I don't know how to respond because I don't know your minds. I do care that everyone of you go to heaven.
If you all want to break down the bible verses and answer specific points, go right ahead. We who ignore the wrong parts of the bible will be pay an eter ...[text shortened]... ll have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
- the thief on the cross did not have to do any good works therefore I dont have to either
- Christ did not specify how much good works are required therefore I wont bother to do any
You think those excuses will please Christ? Good luck to you pal and continue on with your preaching.