Originally posted by SuzianneHere's my turn to give you a big Thumbs Up, Suzy!
You think your personal favorite verse or chapter is the be all end all of the Bible. The entire scripture needs to be taken as a whole.
No one has the only correct personal insight into the truth. It is all opinion. And you know what they say, everyone has one. We are all guided by the Holy Spirit to certain sections of the scripture to gain ...[text shortened]... to truth which affects us. To assume that this is the only truth for everyone is vanity.
What you say is 100% true - unfortunately the persons who should take this to heart have a closed brain!
🙁
CalJust,
Why would you want to lose your own soul because "you want" to believe as you believe. That is your choice. You are given that choice by the Creator. If you are wrong, you are the one with the most to lose.
You think that evolution is true. Go prove it yourself and write a book. Don't depend on Darwin or anyone else. Find your own "facts." Darwin's so-called science is out of date. Use modern Science to prove evolution. And don't depend on just 1 sided science. Use all forms of Science. Be open to all the sciences. If you hold to evolution and don't search for the "facts" on your own, then you are just believing in Darwin's opinion. That means you are putting faith in Darwin. But you have no proof yourself.
Don't try to blame Christians for faith in Christ. If you are holding to evolution, then you are putting faith in Darwin's opinion. And even he left room for disapproval of his evolutionary belief.
RajK,
You are still missing the point. Why you are missing it, I don't know. It is clear in the bible that a person cannot work his or her way to heaven. Good works are not the way. Jesus is the way to heaven. Why do you think that Jesus said that He is the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes unto the Father, but by Him? And why is there none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved?
The point of good works is not to get to heaven. It is what God wants from people who share a relationship with Him. He is holy and he wants us holy. But it is not so that we can make it to heaven. Good works are matter of pleasing God and for rewards after a person is already saved.
Again, where do aborted babies go when they die when they have done no good works? Where do mental people go when they die if they have done no good works because they were to messed up mentally? There is no scripture that says aborted babies go to heaven. There is no scripture that says mental people go to heaven. So what then, are they in hell? They have not done good works to get them there.
Jesus told about people, I guess, in a parable, that were "paid just as much to work" as the ones who started earlier in the day. The others worked harder and longer, but Jesus gave the late working people "the same wage" as the earlier starters. How is this fair for some to do less work and yet still go to heaven. Works are not about who goes to heaven. Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again. And so must we be. If you will read, John 3.
If we are going to depend on good works to get us to heaven and not Jesus, then we will be ashamed when it comes time to decide where we will spend eternity. If we don't want to accept Christ as our personal Savior, then we will go to the lake of fire. Lastly, if you do not listen to the words that I type, then you are missing my point about good works.
I am only saying that good works will not get us to heaven. Good works are only for pleasing God as a saved person already and for rewards. Please do not depend on your good works to get you to heaven.
Suzianne,
You say that no one has the "real truth." Logically speaking, everyone is not right at the same time about "the truth." Who are we to give our personal opinions about what truth is. The Bible is older than I am. The original scripture is older than I am and the bible. I would rather put my faith in a living God who was around before the earth was created for my salvation. For whatever reason or reasons God has let people of the earth be blind about truth. But to take another person's opinion over God is foolishness..
People have made up religions for generations. Why would anybody be so foolish to make up their own religion? And why should anyone else believe the ones who make up their own religion? If we can't trust one who came to be the Messiah, then why do we trust our own intellect or feelings, or other people's opinions?
Whatever truth we find, we need to be accurate when it comes to our eternal life. Don't be wrong about that. Don't put your faith in other people.
Originally posted by KingOnPointScience isn't like that anymore. There is too much going on for any one person to re-invent a whole branch of it from scratch.
You think that evolution is true. Go prove it yourself and write a book. Don't depend on Darwin or anyone else. Find your own "facts."
Also, you don't choose what you believe. I'm going to sound like a broken record on this point so it has a chance to sink in. Don't think I am picking on you; this is a fairly popular argument for many theists. I'm bugging them as well.
SwissGambit,
Why do you think that you don't choose what you believe? Christians are not all from Christian Foundational countries. If people in non-christian countries choose to believe in Christ Jesus, why can't you? With all the religions in the world and you still think that you don't choose what you believe?
Perhaps, some practicers of religion are in in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Baha'i, Taoism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Rastafari, Paganism, Wicca, Kemetism, Gnosticism, Shintoism, Babism, Scientology, Confucianism, Epicureanism, Hare Krishna, Jainism, Mithraism, Satanism, Shaivism, Vampirism, Voodoo, Zen, Zoroastranism, Roman Mythology, Greek Mythology, Viking Mythology, Filipino Mythology,and whatever else there is.
All the people represented in these choices of belief represent the ability to choose on their own.
So, why do you think that you cannot choose in whom or what you believe.
Originally posted by KingOnPointBecause that's not how the belief-formation process generally works. We tend to deliberate about our experiences, weigh evidence both pro and con, and apply reason. Once we reach an evaluation that the case for a belief is strong enough, a belief is formed in our mind.
SwissGambit,
Why do you think that you don't choose what you believe? Christians are not all from Christian Foundational countries. If people in non-christian countries choose to believe in Christ Jesus, why can't you? With all the religions in the world and you still think that you don't choose what you believe?
Perhaps, some practicers of ...[text shortened]... hoose on their own.
So, why do you think that you cannot choose in whom or what you believe.
This can happen quite against our will; we can be exposed to evidence we wish we had not seen, and reach a conclusion we wish we did not believe. We cannot change belief through a sheer act of will. All we can do is search for new evidence, or try a new line of reasoning, or immerse ourselves in different experiences, but until we find something compelling, we cannot change our belief.
The control through willpower is indirect at best. I can try to avoid reading books that might challenge the belief I wish to have. I can listen only to sources biased towards what I wish to believe. But I can't avoid the change in my desired belief once counter-evidence seeps into my mind and I become convinced that my belief is not correct.
Originally posted by SwissGambitI believe you are right that a belief is formed in the mind once we receive enough evidence, programming, propaganda, experiences, and the like. However, after a person has formed this belief in the mind, he can choose to be open minded or closed minded to other beliefs and the possibility he may be wrong. One can seek out the truth or be content that he knows it all. So in that sense a person has a choice.
Because that's not how the belief-formation process generally works. We tend to deliberate about our experiences, weigh evidence both pro and con, and apply reason. Once we reach an evaluation that the case for a belief is strong enough, a belief is formed in our mind.
This can happen quite against our will; we can be exposed to evidence we wish we ha ...[text shortened]... f once counter-evidence seeps into my mind and I become convinced that my belief is not correct.
Originally posted by RJHindsYep.
I believe you are right that a belief is formed in the mind once we receive enough evidence, programming, propaganda, experiences, and the like. However, after a person has formed this belief in the mind, he can choose to be open minded or closed minded to other beliefs and the possibility he may be wrong. One can seek out the truth or be content that he knows it all. So in that sense a person has a choice.
Perhaps an unbeliever can be blamed for ignoring all evidence for God, but how do you blame him/her after they've examined it and remained unconvinced?
Originally posted by SwissGambitI don't think you can blame them, if they are mentally retarded. However, I believe God has provided some way for the mentally handicapped.
Yep.
Perhaps an unbeliever can be blamed for ignoring all evidence for God, but how do you blame him/her after they've examined it and remained unconvinced?
Originally posted by KingOnPointMaybe there is some confusion. All love, compassion comes from God. If a person out of compassion, does something for another with no thoughts for himself. It could be said it is God working through that person. Yet i've seen God work through people that i know don't "know" God as i do.
RajK,
You are still missing the point. Why you are missing it, I don't know. It is clear in the bible that a person cannot work his or her way to heaven. Good works are not the way. Jesus is the way to heaven. Why do you think that Jesus said that He is the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes unto the Father, but by Him? And why is the ...[text shortened]... d person already and for rewards. Please do not depend on your good works to get you to heaven.
I don't judge. I know God.
Originally posted by RJHindsOh, and you were doing so well for a minute there.
Why not? If you can't blame those with sound mind, then who else is there to blame?
I am just thankful that the Judgement is up to God the Son and not to any of us, for we could all get it wrong.
Meh. We'll try it again next time.
Originally posted by SwissGambitWell, if I were the judge I would have to ask them questions to determine the exact reason that each one should be blamed. But I believe I could find a reason because they do have a sound mind.
Oh, and you were doing so well for a minute there.
Meh. We'll try it again next time.