If you were God?

Originally posted by telerion
You didn't get the point.

Because you didn't have one.

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Dottewell, can you imagine that God created this world and all living beings in it; and yet doesn't have (enough) resources to control everything? That He can't after all be everywhere at the same time? That He can't possibly know everything? Hence the possibility that someone might worship Him royally and yet has the lousiest of lucks and die unnoticed (by ould at least explain many unfortunate tragedies that had happened to good religious people.

It's not a matter of active, "real-time" control (although if god were omnipotent, this shouldn't be a problem). It's how you set the world up at the moment of creation. Even if the number of possible "natural phenomena" and free choices by all free agents in history is virtually infinite, chosing the best possible path is no problem for an omnipotent, omniscient being.

Of course, if god is not omnipotent, or not omniscient, it's a different matter.

Originally posted by telerion
The lack of earthquakes in some place is not a violation of physics. Laws of physics are written by the designer. Did your god make this creation or did he just follow Muffy's orders?

Where are your necessary and sufficient conditions?

Where there is not an earthquake there will be a mudslide, or a fire, or a flood. Geez you guys have such one track minds.

Originally posted by Darfius
Where there is not an earthquake there will be a mudslide, or a fire, or a flood. Geez you guys have such one track minds.

"God, come quick! There's been a mudslide!"

"What? How? Where?"

Originally posted by Darfius
It was, but I'll give you the point if you can explain WHY Lewis isn't respected. If you say "Because he was a Christian", well, please say that. 😉

Never mind. You are clearly the expert on such matters.

Originally posted by telerion
No it's not. You're making it all up as you go because you don't know the necessary and sufficient conditions. Everytime you run into a sticky situation you discover another necessary condition.

So let's have it or desist with this ad hoc charade.

which Lewis are you guys talking about Jerry?

Originally posted by Darfius
Because you didn't have one.

I did and it's has been made by all of us here (minus you of course). You keep constraining your god with natural laws. This blatantly ignores that your god was supposed to be the one that authored the natural laws in the first place. Therefore natural laws could not have constrained his choice for creation.

Originally posted by Darfius
lol, yes, He is 'limited' to the possible, yes. Every inch of surface on the world is subject to natural forces i.e. erosion, rain, wind, GRAVITY.

And God could not have made it otherwise? How do you know?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
And God could not have made it otherwise? How do you know?

You'd know too if you had read B.S. Lewis.

Originally posted by Darfius
What I am saying is that their choices are affected by countless things which come about as a result of the experiences they have.

You're avoiding the question. You claim that 100% of a population cannot choose God, but you refuse to elaborate. I think you pulled that idea out of your butt.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
You're avoiding the question. You claim that 100% of a population cannot choose God, but you refuse to elaborate. I think you pulled that idea out of your butt.

The onus is on you to describe a world wherein it's possible.

Originally posted by telerion
I did and it's has been made by all of us here (minus you of course). You keep constraining your god with natural laws. This blatantly ignores that your god was supposed to be the one that authored the natural laws in the first place. Therefore natural laws could not have constrained his choice for creation.

Explain how He could have made the universe differently. Assuming He could have is not a good argument.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
And God could not have made it otherwise? How do you know?

Explain how He could have. Again, pointing to His omnipotence and saying "der, He can do ANYTHING" is not a point, since 'anything' is not synonymous with 'anything my little mind can imagine'.

Originally posted by Darfius
Explain how He could have made the universe differently. Assuming He could have is not a good argument.

Assuming that the omnipotent, omniscient designer of the universe could have created a different universe than the one that exists is "not a good argument"?

You're asking us to tell you how a supernatural being creates ex nihilo. That's ludicrous. The best evidence we have that your god could have created the universe differently is stories from the Bible which show that he can alter the laws of physics. Take for example Joshua's battle against the Amorites where your god caused the sun and moon to "stand still" for nearly the equivalent of an earth day. You're worried about the effects of not having earthquakes, but your Bible says that your god can alter the solar system with no deleterious effects on human life.

Originally posted by dottewell
"God, come quick! There's been a mudslide!"

"What? How? Where?"

"God, come quick! There's been a mudslide!"

"Now you understand true love, my child."