Originally posted by lucifershammer
Certainly Gnosticism as a movement may have predated Christ. But one cannot, for obvious reasons, argue that Gnostic Christianity predates Christ. And if one asks when Christ was assimilated in the Gnostic viewpoint, that would, at best, be in the latter stages of the Apostolic era.

No one is arguing a pre-christ Christianity, however the RCC isn't Christianity in it's original form, only Gnosticism can make a rightful claim to being the original Christianity since there are so many passages in Christ's message that are basically Gnostic and not remotely close to Catholic dogma.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
The New Testament was written by and for the Catholic Church? Give me a break. That's nonsense.

Why is it nonsense?

EDIT: When do you think the Catholic Church was founded?

Originally posted by frogstomp
No one is arguing a pre-christ Christianity, however the RCC isn't Christianity in it's original form, only Gnosticism can make a rightful claim to being the original Christianity since there are so many passages in Christ's message that are basically Gnostic and not remotely close to Catholic dogma.

Examples?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Why is it nonsense?

EDIT: When do you think the Catholic Church was founded?

Well, one thing is for certain: the first pope wasn't Peter.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Well, one thing is for certain: the first pope wasn't Peter.

Who was it then?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Examples?

how does a Catholic seek the kingdom when the pope tells them the way?

Originally posted by frogstomp
how does a Catholic seek the kingdom when the pope tells them the way?

Excuse me? Could you elaborate a little?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Excuse me? Could you elaborate a little?

Seek and ye shall find.

Originally posted by frogstomp
Seek and ye shall find.

Seek (zeteo) does not just mean looking for something when you don't know where it is. Even when you know where it is and how to get there, you still need to make the journey, to strive for it.

How is this inconsistent with Catholicism?

EDIT: One might call this the map/territory dichotomy. Just because you have the map does not mean you have arrived at your destination - you still need to make the journey.

Originally posted by vistesd
Animism.

Oh...ya know... I forgot about Animism.....

That has potential too....

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Seek (zeteo) does not just mean looking for something when you don't know where it is. Even when you know where it is and how to get there, you still need to make the journey, to strive for it.

How is this inconsistent with Catholicism?

He didn't say "Seek the pope's view and ye shall find.", did He?

Answer to your edit : One need not journey far since the Kingdom is everywhere.

Originally posted by frogstomp
He didn't say "Seek the pope's view and ye shall find.", did He?

Read the entire verse in context. He is not talking about seeking views or knowledge (or even God, for that matter) - he is talking about petitioning God for our needs:

(Mt 7)
[7] "Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
[8] For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
[9] Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?
[10] Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?
[11] If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

EDIT: It's just a few verses before this (in Mt 6) that the Lord's Prayer is given to the Apostles.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Read the entire verse in context. He is not talking about seeking views or knowledge (or even God, for that matter) - he is talking about petitioning God for our needs:

(Mt 7)
[7] "Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
[8] For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him w ...[text shortened]... hildren, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

according to your pope thats what He meant, however Christ did have a way of hiding important stuff from the ignorant power grubbers and still help the seekers find the truth.
I realize it's a waste of time trying to explain it to one who is blinded by dogma, but there might be a few here that can see, it's to them I speak.

Originally posted by frogstomp
according to your pope thats what He meant, however Christ did have a way of hiding important stuff from the ignorant power grubbers and still help the seekers find the truth.
I realize it's a waste of time trying to explain it to one who is blinded by dogma, but there might be a few here that can see, it's to them I speak.

That was almost a typical Gnostic response. 🙂

EDIT: In this instance, your position is not supported by the text, taken in context. This has nothing to do with whether it's the Pope's view or not. It's a matter of common sense.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
That was almost a typical Gnostic response. 🙂

a real Gnostic.

edit: try and complete an idea before you have entirely new stuff into a post.

seeking would be easier and so too would be finding, if you knew what to seek and that what is what you are missing in the way you read those passages.