Originally posted by 667joe As far as I know, witches were burned with the approval and encouragement of religious authorities doing work of god. Just as Zeus and Baal are no longer being taken seriously, the belief in your supernatural friend in the sky is also fading. Some day most people will view the god of today the way we view Zeus. Progress is inexorable. There was a time w ...[text shortened]... God was universal. It's called the Dark Ages! You, my friend, are lingering in the dark ages.
progress? how you can talk of progress when divine principles are being pushed aside for merely human wisdom and a pretence of knowledge the result of which is that humanity is in a worse predicament now than it ever has been in its entire history. You may talk of technological process, progress in medical science, but until you start to solve problems relating to humankind's morality, you have no claim on progress, greed exists, injustice exists, environmental pollution exists for which society is willing to sacrifice its economy for the environment, and you talk of progress, man you need to wake up and smell the coffee!
Originally posted by Proper Knob Religion doesn't exactly come out smelling of roses though does it Rob?
yes you are correct Noobster my friend, for the most, its purely a facade, a ritualistic form of worship, which has no real influence in a persons life, a form of godly devotion which proves false to its own power. when something else comes along, it gets supplanted, the human conscience excuses itself, and atrocities are committed. one can almost justify any horror if one attributes an ulterior motive, take for example , Mengeles, the infamous Nazi doctor, he really felt that he was doing humanity a favour by his horrendous experimentation, thus all sorts of vile acts can be couched in ulterior motives, we've seen it in our own time, with the lies that contributed to the war in Iraq, etc etc. Its the same with religion as well.
Originally posted by Conrau K You probably are not very familiar with history. The idea that any prominent Russian would have been Catholic is ludicrous in itself. Stalin was actually Georgian Orthodox, not Catholic.
i read somewhere that ol Joseph was a closet atheist.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie progress? how you can talk of progress when divine principles are being pushed aside for merely human wisdom and a pretence of knowledge the result of which is that humanity is in a worse predicament now than it ever has been in its entire history. You may talk of technological process, progress in medical science, but until you start to solve prob ...[text shortened]... my for the environment, and you talk of progress, man you need to wake up and smell the coffee!
Of course there's progress.
The slave trade is no more, ethnic minorities are treated very differently, women have the vote and aren't considered lesser than men, capital punishment has been abolished (UK i'm talking about), workers have many more rights, we have the human rights act, etc etc
To say humanity is in a worse predicament now is utterly absurd. Sometimes Rob you have to take of those 'dogmatic religious glasses' and look at the world objectievly. I know you find it hard.
Originally posted by Proper Knob Of course there's progress.
The slave trade is no more, ethnic minorities are treated very differently, women have the vote and aren't considered lesser than men, capital punishment has been abolished (UK i'm talking about), workers have many more rights, we have the human rights act, etc etc
To say humanity is in a worse predicament now is utterly ...[text shortened]... se 'dogmatic religious glasses' and look at the world objectievly. I know you find it hard.
na, its all just window dressing dear Noobster, the realities are that by the time you have read this message, some kid will have died from hunger and malnutrition, by the end of the day 850 million people will go to sleep with nothing in their stomachs where somewhere else someone shall die because they are overweight and eat too much, somewhere someone is being killed by a bullet, somewhere deforestation is taking place, somewhere someone is being raped, somewhere someone is drinking contaminated water. . . . . etc etc.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie na, its all just window dressing dear Noobster, the realities are that by the time you have read this message, some kid will have died from hunger and malnutrition, by the end of the day 850 million people will go to sleep with nothing in their stomachs where somewhere else someone shall die because they are overweight and eat too much, somewhere som ...[text shortened]... where someone is being raped, somewhere someone is drinking contaminated water. . . . . etc etc.
No one said the world isn't a harsh place. It always has been, and will be for some considerable time. But to claim that humanity has made no moral progress is frankly absurd.
I'm going to stick my neck on the line and state that the countries that have made the most moral progress are the ones that have the greatest number of atheists.
Originally posted by Proper Knob No one said the world isn't a harsh place. It always has been, and will be for some considerable time. But to claim that humanity has made no moral progress is frankly absurd.
I'm going to stick my neck on the line and state that the countries that have made the most moral progress are the ones that have the greatest number of atheists.
woahhhh, if everyone lived as Christ did their would be no war, no famine and no greed. The sermon on the mount is the very pinnacle of human morality!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie woahhhh, if everyone lived as Christ did their would be no war, no famine and no greed. The sermon on the mount is the very pinnacle of human morality!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie i read somewhere that ol Joseph was a closet atheist.
Considering that atheism was official Soviet policy, it must have been a mighty big closet.
Stalin was educated in a seminary but the only power he believed in was history, which naturally was acting through him.
667joe ought to read a book or two, his ignorance is shameful. Although I'm eagerly awaiting his explanation of the religious motivation behind the atrocities committed by the Japanese. And I'm sure Mao was also a Catholic.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage Considering that atheism was official Soviet policy, it must have been a mighty big closet.
Stalin was educated in a seminary but the only power he believed in was history, which naturally was acting through him.
667joe ought to read a book or two, his ignorance is shameful. Although I'm eagerly awaiting his explanation of the religious motivation behind the atrocities committed by the Japanese. And I'm sure Mao was also a Catholic.
The Japanese treated their emperor as a god. Chairman Mao was influenced by religion to the point that communism became essentially the state religion. (By the way, Jesus espoused many principals associated with communism.)
I never claimed that all atheists are good people, or that all religious people are bad. I merely state that people who believe in imaginary entities whose existence can not be verified are deluding themselves and they may be doing so out of fear.
Non religious people have been brutal, but religious people have been brutal in the name of god. In fact, don't you think it's brutal to sacrifice you son?
People who make ad hominem attacks usually do so when their main arguments are weak.
Originally posted by Conrau K I don't think that is a fair characterisation of religion. Not all religions have a clerical order. Not all clerics rely on the alms of a congregation. Some clerics are very self-giving, charitable people. Your rant is nothing more than the usual cliche of religion vs science. History attests to many scientists who were religious and most modern churches ac ...[text shortened]... ent of the validity of evolutionary theory. Religion and science are not diametrically opposed.
I'd call myself an atheist but agree with this. Religion tends to get a bad press. Whatever I might think of some of its claims - for example, about the supernatural - I also think that churches mostly consist of men and women who come together to make sense of their lives and to do a bit of good in the company of like-minded people. What is off-putting about some religious people is their controlling tendency: the "thou shall not's" and the enthusiastic casting of the first stone. But this is not what religion really preach: humility and charity is prized and pride condemned. If some people want to wrap that up in theological language, music and rituals, good luck to them.
Ignorance and Fear
29 Jan '10 22:05
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